Advice On Playing These Flops

[delasoul 0]

I'm been having trouble with these scenarios and I'd like advice on how what you guys normally do. I find myself not being as profitable in these scenarios and playing these hands incorrectly.I am multi-tabling so I don't really have a read on players. I think I run into too many overcards higher than mine in these situations.Do you lead out the turn or check fold to a bet.Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.10/$0.258 playersConverterStack sizes:Hero: $23.05UTG+1: $30.05MP1: $81.90MP2: $13.40CO: $14Button: $15.55SB: $24.60BB: $30.70Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG with Hero calls, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $1, 4 folds, Hero calls.Flop: :) ($2.35, 2 players)Hero checks, MP2 bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.5, MP2 calls.Turn: ($7.35, 2 players)Hero checks, MP2 bets $3.5, Hero calls.River: ($14.35, 2 players)Hero checks, MP2 checks.Results:Final pot: $14.35

[MasterLJ 0]

Nice hand and well played.

[delasoul 0]

Was this a proper move on the flop and turn??? I lost the hand but not because of the river card so I'm unsure if my play on the turn was correct. I know there are various ways to play this hand.I figure when I check and he bet the turn he had overcards of some sort. I wanted to lay down on the turn but I couldn't get myself to do it. Figure I might be playing too soft if I did.

[jjdylan 0]

I'd raise preflop, i think the hand plays out a lot differently if you do that.If you're going to check/raise the flop, i think youve got to keep the lead on the turn. If you get raised on the turn you know you're in trouble and can fold. If he just calls again on the turn you can start to get suspicious and maybe fire a small blocking bet/value bet on the river since he seems like he doesnt want to raise you if he does in fact have you beat.As you played it you've giving up control of the hand and reduced your self to check/calling and praying your hand holds or check/folding what has a very good chance of being the best hand.Like i said before, you probably have the best hand, so keep betting it. You can easily get away if he raises, and if he decides to not raise with a hand that has you beat, you at least get to set your own price for finding out.

[shrimp4789 0]

I'd raise preflop, i think the hand plays out a lot differently if you do that.If you're going to check/raise the flop, i think youve got to keep the lead on the turn. If you get raised on the turn you know you're in trouble and can fold. If he just calls again on the turn you can start to get suspicious and maybe fire a small blocking bet/value bet on the river since he seems like he doesnt want to raise you if he does in fact have you beat.As you played it you've giving up control of the hand and reduced your self to check/calling and praying your hand holds or check/folding what has a very good chance of being the best hand.Like i said before, you probably have the best hand, so keep betting it. You can easily get away if he raises, and if he decides to not raise with a hand that has you beat, you at least get to set your own price for finding out.

QFT...exactly what I was thinking

[Zach6668 513]

Haven't read replies:Raise preflop/Lead Flop/Lead Turn/c/c river, or something like that, lol.As played, flop raise is good.But you are uselessly inconsistent on the turn. Why the heck are you checking?Bet the turn for value. Easy fold if he raises.- Zach

[trystero 0]

I am multi-tabling so I don't really have a read on players.

Buy Poker Tracker ASAP - it's truly a godly tool and will read the players for you. I don't know how I ever played without it.

[caribstv 0]

I'm been having trouble with these scenarios and I'd like advice on how what you guys normally do. I find myself not being as profitable in these scenarios and playing these hands incorrectly.I am multi-tabling so I don't really have a read on players. I think I run into too many overcards higher than mine in these situations.Do you lead out the turn or check fold to a bet.Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.10/$0.258 playersConverterStack sizes:Hero: $23.05UTG+1: $30.05MP1: $81.90MP2: $13.40CO: $14Button: $15.55SB: $24.60BB: $30.70Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG with Hero calls, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $1, 4 folds, Hero calls.Flop: :) ($2.35, 2 players)Hero checks, MP2 bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.5, MP2 calls.Turn: ($7.35, 2 players)Hero checks, MP2 bets $3.5, Hero calls.River: ($14.35, 2 players)Hero checks, MP2 checks.Results:Final pot: $14.35

Think about how it went down:you're UTG you and you limpped... every one should always assume you have a hand.2. seeing this MP raises anyway and you call...3. On the flop U Check raised him from UTG and a ragged flop like that.in my oppinion not very many hands you can have.. a. BIG pair , trips and he calls just flat calls...after that Sequence you should have fingured you're 10's were no good and fold to any big bet and move on to the next hand.

[trystero 0]

Think about how it went down:you're UTG you and you limpped... every one should always assume you have a hand.2. seeing this MP raises anyway and you call...3. On the flop U Check raised him from UTG and a ragged flop like that.in my oppinion not very many hands you can have.. a. BIG pair , trips and he calls just flat calls...after that Sequence you should have fingured you're 10's were no good and fold to any big bet and move on to the next hand.

Depending on how loose he is MP makes this same play with overcards, AT+, KQ+, maybe even a hand like KJc. This is why reads (poker tracker) are key. If he's a nit then yes he's likely got an overpair and we can c/f the turn. If he's laggy then we can't put him on a hand that's definitely ahead of us. As played to the river though this looks like JJ.

[Zach6668 513]

Think about how it went down:you're UTG you and you limpped... every one should always assume you have a hand.2. seeing this MP raises anyway and you call...3. On the flop U Check raised him from UTG and a ragged flop like that.in my oppinion not very many hands you can have.. a. BIG pair , trips and he calls just flat calls...after that Sequence you should have fingured you're 10's were no good and fold to any big bet and move on to the next hand.

While it does look like JJ, it's $25NL. I don't give anyone that much credit at $25NL

[Whiskey16 1]

While it does look like JJ, it's $25NL. I don't give anyone that much credit at $25NL

I agree. Caribstv's assessment is very insightful, but I think we're giving a $25 Villain a lot of credit there.Lead the flop. Lead the turn, and fold if Villain continues showing aggression.The flop is safe against a pre-flop raiser. The turn is also safe.If he's still aggressive after that, you can figure him for an over pair, and fold, since most $25 NL players won't keep raising with just overs.

[caribstv 0]

Depending on how loose he is MP makes this same play with overcards, AT+, KQ+, maybe even a hand like KJc. This is why reads (poker tracker) are key. If he's a nit then yes he's likely got an overpair and we can c/f the turn. If he's laggy then we can't put him on a hand that's definitely ahead of us. As played to the river though this looks like JJ.

He said he had no reads as he's playing multiple tablesJJ still have us beat either way..

[Zach6668 513]

He said he had no reads as he's playing multiple tablesJJ still have us beat either way.. I thought thats why he asked for advice.

Uh yeah, but the point is that at $25NL this is WAAAAAY more than JJ-AA.

[caribstv 0]

Uh yeah, but the point is that at $25NL this is WAAAAAY more than JJ-AA.

I hear ya... was playing a live toury couple months back..... and had 99 simlar situation and he was in early position and I checked raise him the flop and he flat called me.... Ace showed up on the turn and saved me $$ as he fired out a pot size bet ...this was live and was Tight weak and folded to any strong preasure.... when he flat called my flop raise..... I was on alert..... I folded the turn bet and he turned over two rockets for a full

[petersun 0]

As played, I would lead the turn, fold to a reraiase, and c/c the river.There have been some really fine analysis on this hand so far so I don't have much to add. However, I would not give the UTG limper nearly as much credit in 25NL as I would in the other levels. I know that I limp a lot more than usual on tables that are somewhat passive with hands that I want to create multipots with. And I play 25Nl, 50Nl, and 100NL (not much 25NL anymore becuase the stakes are just too low and the players are just so terribly bad that it makes me want to puke too much).

[delasoul 0]

I like what everyone's saying. The reason I choose not to raise pre-flop here is because I am utg and 10's isn't that great of a raising hand with more than half the table to play. I prefer to keep the pot small and call a raise with such hands hoping for a set or drawing hand. I mix it up once in a-while and will raise.As played though I probably should have led out on the turn or check/folded to a bet. I think my mistake here was I check raised for a reason which was to get information. I got the information I needed and probably should have let the hand go on the turn.I could lead out here on the flop, but the problem i run into is that I don't really have any information since I did not raise. He could be just a caller since I"m out of position since I'm doing the betting for him. If I get raised on the turn would you guys consider a fold here? Some people like to re-raise a bet on the flop because they are in position.The reason for me to check raise the flop is if he comes over the top i know I'm 10's are no good. Bad thinking on this???

[Zach6668 513]

I think my mistake here was I check raised for a reason which was to get information. I got the information I needed and probably should have let the hand go on the turn.

I dunno man, a lot of players will peel with just overs after your raise, especially $25 NL players. I would much rather bet/fold the turn than c/f. Last thing I do after my flop c/r is check the turn.I bet/fold the turn, and try to check the river down, and will call a moderate bet.

[delasoul 0]

Zach,In these stakes I agree too because I've seen them call raises with just overs hoping to hit. I was luckily enough to get a free showdown on the turn with him showing jj's. I should have bet out on the turn. There's really no such thing as blocker bet in these stakes. These guys don't understand that and don't think it works to well at these stakes.I don't normally check the turn after i check raise a flop. It's really inconsistent especially out of position. I was thinking about the hand too much and just ended up checking it.I like the responses. Its some good insight for future play

[petersun 0]

EDIT: Removed statement that was not well though out =)

[Zach6668 513]

This is the exact reason why you bet the turn. Even idiots when they don't hit by the turn with two overs will give up.

Well, sorta, but not for those reasons.We don't bet the turn to get him to fold a WORSE hand. We bet the turn to give him a chance to make a mistake and call with bad odds, etc, and to gain value from our hand.

[petersun 0]

Well, sorta, but not for those reasons.We don't bet the turn to get him to fold a WORSE hand. We bet the turn to give him a chance to make a mistake and call with bad odds, etc, and to gain value from our hand.

I wrote that post as I was going out the door, so I didn't think about what I was suggesting by answering the post that way. Yes, clearly we want to make a bet that makes it incorrect for the WORST hand to call, and if they call you get value out of the hand. But at the same time, the game is a game of imperfect information. Our bet on the turn is also a way in which we're using our agression to cause a fold from a marginally better hand or a hand that has a draw becuase we know that our hand can't stand up to too much more pressure. Not betting here is okay as well if your line is to c/f based on your read. Or a different way of saying this is, I don't think we're losing value against the range if we make a bet that can cause a fold here. If we can't make such a bet, then I favor checking.