petersun 0 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Sometimes people talk about being able to crush an particular level of NL game. What do most folks considering crushing a game? 10bb/hour? 20bb/hour?What is the average win rate of a winning player at any given NL level? 5bb/hour? 8bb/hour? Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 MasterLJ posted this in another thread a few days ago in regards to $25/50 NL (big bets, not big blinds): 0-2 you need help3-5 is where most winners are6+ is crushingOr so corroborated by my PT database of 40,000+ players.Average low-staker loses like 4.5 PTBB/100 Link to post Share on other sites
MasterLJ 0 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 MasterLJ posted this in another thread a few days ago in regards to $25/50 NL (big bets, not big blinds):And that MasterLJ is one smart dude. Link to post Share on other sites
petersun 0 Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 These values are somewhat surprising (surprisingly low I guess). Do you have enough hands for those 40,000 people to get a representative sample set?I have read from the various books in limit hold'em that 1BB/hour is good. I was wondering if anyone had heard of a similar rule for NL. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 These values are somewhat surprising (surprisingly low I guess). Do you have enough hands for those 40,000 people to get a representative sample set?I have read from the various books in limit hold'em that 1BB/hour is good. I was wondering if anyone had heard of a similar rule for NL.This has nothing to do with time.We are talking ptbb/100 hands. Welcome to the internet.Your bb/hour, live, will be a lot smaller given you see waaaaaay less hands per hour.Also, if you were to apply bb/hr to an online setting, it would be impossible to compare as many players have different multitabling ratios. Link to post Share on other sites
petersun 0 Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 I certainly agree that it has nothing to do with time, but we always want to think of time as well because that's how most people measure income. I also made an unstated assumption of 1 table.My assumption/experience is as follows...bb/100 in 6-max is close to bb/hour if you 1 table.bb/100 in full-ring is close to 1.3 * bb/hour if you 1 table.Someone had asked in another thread what it would take to make 100k a year and at what stakes. The response was 4 tabling 200NL. So at about 2000 hours of playing a year, that means 50 dollars an hour or 12.5 dollars per table per hour. At 200 NL that translates into about 6bb/hour or 6 bb/100 in 6-max and like 7.8 bb/100 in full ring.So you have to crushing the 200NL with 4 tables to make 100k a year. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 2 words: Rakeback and Bonuses, as well.However, 1 tabling is retarded.Learn to multitable, and you can crush the game at $200 NL and make $600K/year. Link to post Share on other sites
petersun 0 Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 Nah, I have a day job that pays me well, so I don't need to multi-table 200NL. I just like understanding what my expected additional income might be. I have modest goals of trying to pay for my next vacation or supporting some children in Africa with my poker income =)Ya rakeback and bonuses are key. I do take advantage of both of those as well. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Nah, I have a day job that pays me well, so I don't need to multi-table 200NL. I just like understanding what my expected additional income might be. I have modest goals of trying to pay for my next vacation or supporting some children in Africa with my poker income =)Ya rakeback and bonuses are key. I do take advantage of both of those as well.I think you need 500k hands before your true win rate will come out. I have 400k hands and my winrate still varies a up to a 1 bb/100 depending if I am on an upswing or a downswing. Link to post Share on other sites
petersun 0 Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 I think you need 500k hands before your true win rate will come out. I have 400k hands and my winrate still varies a up to a 1 bb/100 depending if I am on an upswing or a downswing.Ouch, I don't think I'll get to 500k anytime soon =) How many tables and what limits do you play? Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Ouch, I don't think I'll get to 500k anytime soon =) How many tables and what limits do you play?4-9 depending, 25 - 100 NL Link to post Share on other sites
oldirtyharry 0 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 4-9 depending, 25 - 100 NLWhat factor into your decisons to drop down or move up in limits? simply downswings/upswings?Oh and im still down for the poker by the common, anytime around christmas. let me know Link to post Share on other sites
rkard 0 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 While I was playing low stakes I felt comfortable with a minimum of 20 buyins per level and i'd do 3-4 tables. per level, not per table. As I've moved up higher my min requirements have gone up. Over the years I've moved up from .25/.50- 5/10. When I started though, party had this gimp maxbuyin at 50bb. But my procedure would be to Start off at each limit playing 1-2 tables as soon as I got 20 buyins. I would then add 3 and finally 4 as I got more buyins. As I got higher, allbeit more comfortable, I still got stricter on my requirements.So, basically if I was winning and getting comfortable i'd add more tables. It was easy to get comfortable single tabling though.. but if I wasn't doing well I would stick at it but just the single or two tables. I wouldn't just instantly pop down a level if I lost a buyin or two. To me the harder part was 1/2 to 2/4 and is where I figured to stiffen my requirements a bit, because it was suddenly 4 figure swings a day, and you'd have to mix it up a looot more as compared to .5/1 > 1/2. NL200 and below is jammed with poor players. The guys who do know a thing or two often have terrible problems dealing with the luck element and you'll catch them steaming. nl400 / 1000 is where you need to get cute with it.Now I don't play half as much and mostly trying to focus on "non poker" stuff, maybe i'm stuck in a 5/10 limbo with not enough of a "poker bug" to push it, but 4x tables sh.. its good and enough money for now with short sessions. So can I spend more time on joys of life, such as fight training, buddhism and being a jerk (spot the odd one out).I don't live or die for poker. I don't love poker. Yes, I do spend a lot of time thinking about it because (as crazy as it sounds!!!...) money opens the world up and makes life ****ing enjoyable!however, online poker is just insanely convenient and I won't stop until it becomes inconvenient. love or no love. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 What factor into your decisons to drop down or move up in limits? simply downswings/upswings?Oh and im still down for the poker by the common, anytime around christmas. let me knowhow much money is in my account silly. I am broke for the next few weeks but have put in 20 hours of OT so I will be down post 15th. PM me your email or contact information. The mods just moved the thread to home game poker btw Link to post Share on other sites
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