cu in 4years Dan 1 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 so im watching the monte carlo millions season 2 episode 3 and this situation where the dealer didnt burn a card came up.now there were 2 players in the hand and a player not in the hand asked if the dealer forgot to burn a card. it turned out the dealer did forget and the hand flop was redone.my question is should that player have said anything in that hand? i mean it did screw the hand up for juanda big time, Link to post Share on other sites
beans422 0 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 I think they definitely should've said something. Those rules are in place to ensure the integrity of the game and while in this instance I'm close to 100% sure that it was an honest mistake, procedures still have to be taken to ensure future protection. Link to post Share on other sites
quadaces 0 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Its tough because if your not in the hand you really should just STFU and watch, Yet you also should make sure that the dealer is doing things right! Its always a tough situation to be in Link to post Share on other sites
pocket_rocket 0 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 sounds like juandas opponent got screwed because of the misdeal and they dealt it again to try to fix it. what you said is like a cheater getting screwed cause he got caught. Link to post Share on other sites
chgocubs99 0 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 I think they definitely should've said something. Those rules are in place to ensure the integrity of the game and while in this instance I'm close to 100% sure that it was an honest mistake, procedures still have to be taken to ensure future protection.Oh my god, the integrity was compromised because three different RAMDOM cards came out on the flop...LOL.Sorry, I can't help but being a smartass especially after 14 captain and cokes, but in all seriousness, they are random cards and don't matter. Yet I have brought this up before and the majority here seem to think differently...so I won't make a huge deal of it. It's the same as if you get a card on the deal that was meant to go the guy next to you...irrelevant. They are two random cards. You could deal the cards around the table in any way imaginable, doesn't compromise the integrity of the game in the slightest.But like I said, pretty sure I'm in the minority on that one. Link to post Share on other sites
NarSARSsist 0 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Oh my god, the integrity was compromised because three different RAMDOM cards came out on the flop...LOL.Sorry, I can't help but being a smartass especially after 14 captain and cokes, but in all seriousness, they are random cards and don't matter. Yet I have brought this up before and the majority here seem to think differently...so I won't make a huge deal of it. It's the same as if you get a card on the deal that was meant to go the guy next to you...irrelevant. They are two random cards. You could deal the cards around the table in any way imaginable, doesn't compromise the integrity of the game in the slightest.But like I said, pretty sure I'm in the minority on that one.Actually, the reason why cards are burned has nothing to do with randomness. It's just so that cards don't get marked. In all honesty, the cards getting marked here is very unlikely, but that's what is usually meant by protecting integrity by burning a card first. (But I do agree with you about the randomness of the cards, and don't get me started on the retards who deal out all five cards face down immediately, and then say "oh man i forgot to burn" or "oh no, i forgot which cards were the flop cards!" and want to redeal ) Link to post Share on other sites
alanstats 0 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Part of it is in fact a protection from cheating. If a dealer and player were workin in collaboration, a dealer would be able to potentially look at the top card in the deck and signal the player. When the top card on the deck will always be burned, it does make it more difficult, though not at all impossible, for cheating to occurr. I think in this situation, the player not in the hand needs to say nothing. After the hand, he should remind the dealer. Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 How did a professional dealer forget to burn before the flop? Link to post Share on other sites
showstopper24 0 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 probably should have said something-it wouldn't be fair for one of the players no matter what happend (the dealer forgetting the burn card will benefit one of them) so may as well do the correct thing Link to post Share on other sites
MasterLJ 0 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Anyone can say something here whether they are in the hand or not. It's like someone tabling their "losing" hand even though it's a winner and the dealer pushing the pot to the guy with the worse hand. Cards speak, so anyone, including someone observing, is free to make a comment. Same with an improper deal. Link to post Share on other sites
13CARDS 0 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Was there action once the flop was out?If there was action (a bet, fold or check), then the flop should remain as is.If there was no action, reshuffle the flop in with the stub (not the mucked cards!), BURN and put out the new flop.Everyone (all the players at the table, the dealer(s), the floor staff) have an OBLIGATION to voice concerns over the proper procedures being followed. No one should allow something incorrect to happen if it is noticed. Link to post Share on other sites
DCJ001 0 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Was there action once the flop was out?If there was action (a bet, fold or check), then the flop should remain as is.If there was no action, reshuffle the flop in with the stub (not the mucked cards!), BURN and put out the new flop.Everyone (all the players at the table, the dealer(s), the floor staff) have an OBLIGATION to voice concerns over the proper procedures being followed. No one should allow something incorrect to happen if it is noticed.Most or all of the people saying that anyone not in the hand should mind their business or that which cards are dealt doesn't matter probably have never played a live game in a casino. Link to post Share on other sites
suicideking 0 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Most or all of the people saying that anyone not in the hand should mind their business or that which cards are dealt doesn't matter probably have never played a live game in a casino.Pretty sure he works at a Casino or something bro. Link to post Share on other sites
13CARDS 0 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Pretty sure he works at a Casino or something bro.Eleven and a half years in "the biz".Currently at Niagara Fallsview Casino Resort.Played in at least one casino on each continent on Earth (that has one).Still can't beat LLNLHE games. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Seeing three extra cards from the deck is the issue here. If certain cards came out on the "first flop" (therefore knowing they are not in someone's hand or are still available in the deck) can affect the action. Link to post Share on other sites
goose 0 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 There's nothing wrong with saying something. If I don't see a dealer burn a card I'm all over it, having dealt myself. This mistake concerns the entire table, not just the two players. Link to post Share on other sites
13CARDS 0 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Seeing three extra cards from the deck is the issue here. If certain cards came out on the "first flop" (therefore knowing they are not in someone's hand or are still available in the deck) can affect the action.But that knowledge is available to both players. No one has gained an advantage by knowing those 3 cards are still in the deck. Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 But that knowledge is available to both players. No one has gained an advantage by knowing those 3 cards are still in the deck.Not entirely true. To use an extreme example. If I have pocket Kings and the flop comes AAA, the value of my hand just increased since I know I am NOT up against pocket Aces.Edit for Clarity: Then the flop is withdrawn - reshuffle - and re-flop with no Ace in the "new" flop. Link to post Share on other sites
13CARDS 0 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Not entirely true. To use an extreme example. If I have pocket Kings and the flop comes AAA, the value of my hand just increased since I know I am NOT up against pocket Aces.But you are waaaaaay behind to A-3 off suit!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Pot Odds RAC 23 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 But you are waaaaaay behind to A-3 off suit!!!You must know my history with pocket Kings. Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Not entirely true. To use an extreme example. If I have pocket Kings and the flop comes AAA, the value of my hand just increased since I know I am NOT up against pocket Aces.If you can't fold KK on a AAAxx board, then you probably shouldn't pursue a career in poker.obligatory sw. Link to post Share on other sites
DCJ001 0 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Pretty sure he works at a Casino or something bro.I don't think you understood my post. I'm replying to 13cards and agreeing with him. I'm saying that anyone at the table can and should point out the mistake. A lot of people who disagree just play on the internet. Link to post Share on other sites
cu in 4years Dan 1 Posted December 6, 2006 Author Share Posted December 6, 2006 interesting comments.my problem is though that he wasnt in the hand so on that hand he should have kept his mouth shut, and on the other hand every player has a duty to call the rules if something wrong happens. Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Hellmuth tells a story in Joe Navaro's book about a pot that should have been chopped but was pushed to the wrong player. He informed the player who was "knocked out" and the floor came and fixed it. Tourney situation. He wasn't in the hand and yet he spoke up. I think it's entirely appropriate in both cases. Link to post Share on other sites
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