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Really Hard Laydown


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The game is 3/5 NL live game, I dont play online. Most of the table has bought in for $300. I have $500 in front of me. Im in the BB. Early position raises to $20, 2 callers. I look down at two black 10's and smooth call. The flop comes Q :D 10 :D 8 :club: .Im not in love with this flop and want to take it down right now. I bet the pot, $80. The button calls, I have more chips. (even though I dont believe that someone out chipping you matters in a cash game).The turn is the worst card in the deck, J :D .I think about my options and decide to check (dont know if that was the best play). There is about $240 in the pot and the button goes all in for $280. So its $280 to win $520 if I take it down.This person just sat down and hasnt shown a hand yet and I have never played with this person before. What is my play? Call or no? I'll post the result after some responses.

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The game is 3/5 NL live game, I dont play online. Most of the table has bought in for $300. I have $500 in front of me. Im in the BB. Early position raises to $20, 2 callers. I look down at two black 10's and smooth call. The flop comes Q :D 10 :D 8 :club: .Im not in love with this flop and want to take it down right now. I bet the pot, $80. The button calls, I have more chips. (even though I dont believe that someone out chipping you matters in a cash game).The turn is the worst card in the deck, J :D .I think about my options and decide to check (dont know if that was the best play). There is about $240 in the pot and the button goes all in for $280. So its $280 to win $520 if I take it down.This person just sat down and hasnt shown a hand yet and I have never played with this person before. What is my play? Call or no? I'll post the result after some responses.
you can put him on a number of hands here, calling the raise preflop. AhXh (unlikely unless its AK for the royal) or 99. both have you beat. id say shove and hope for the best. thats probably the worst card in the deck for you
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With that flop, I would have check called a bet of no more than half the pot. Too much danger. That turn card would have killed it for me. After the turn, if you were up against a straight or a flush, you were a 6:1 underdog and not getting the pot odds to call trying to make a boat or quads.I would have been considering the amount that I could lose more than the amount to be won.

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This person just sat down and hasnt shown a hand yet and I have never played with this person before. What is my play? Call or no? I'll post the result after some responses.
well, according to your topic that reads "replying to really hard laydown" I take it you laid it down. :D I'm just taking a WILLLLD GUESS! :club:
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With that flop, I would have check called a bet of no more than half the pot. Too much danger. That turn card would have killed it for me. After the turn, if you were up against a straight or a flush, you were a 6:1 underdog and not getting the pot odds to call trying to make a boat or quads.I would have been considering the amount that I could lose more than the amount to be won.
LOLLOLOL.. so you are folding to a $60 bet on this flop?
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well, according to your topic that reads "replying to really hard laydown" I take it you laid it down. :club: I'm just taking a WILLLLD GUESS! :club:
Yes, I realized that after I posted and hoped no one would notice. I laid it down. I showed it too. Then the guy went to fold and I said "Did you bluff me?"He said "do you really want to know?" Right when he said that I knew I was bluffed.I said "Ya, go ahead." and he showed Q :D J :D The thing is he wasnt bluffing, he thought he had the best hand and I feel that I read that on him. I thought he caught up to me and he told me he thought he had the best hand.But then about two orbits later I had 8 :D 6 :) and flopped a straight flush on him! That was my first ever straight flush and I have been playing for about 6 years. The turn was again, the J :), he went all in and he had the A :) and went broke.
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Yes, I realized that after I posted and hoped no one would notice. I laid it down. I showed it too. Then the guy went to fold and I said "Did you bluff me?"He said "do you really want to know?" Right when he said that I knew I was bluffed.I said "Ya, go ahead." and he showed Q :club: J :D The thing is he wasnt bluffing, he thought he had the best hand and I feel that I read that on him. I thought he caught up to me and he told me he thought he had the best hand.But then about two orbits later I had 8 :D 6 :D and flopped a straight flush on him! That was my first ever straight flush and I have been playing for about 6 years. The turn was again, the J :), he went all in and he had the A :) and went broke.
Sick game.
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LOLLOLOL.. so you are folding to a $60 bet on this flop?
Since you put it that way...I imagined a losing hand while reading the post about the hand. In a live game, I use more info to make a decision including the villains demeanor and the amount of time that it takes to make a bet or call a bet.Based on the subject title, I knew the op made the laydown. I assumed it to be to a better hand. I do play a flopped set aggressively. In the BB, w/ 1010, I would have reraised to about $70 to isolate one player, and then bet $150 on the flop.Thanks for giving me a reason to rethink my answer.
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Since you put it that way...I imagined a losing hand while reading the post about the hand. In a live game, I use more info to make a decision including the villains demeanor and the amount of time that it takes to make a bet or call a bet.Based on the subject title, I knew the op made the laydown. I assumed it to be to a better hand. I do play a flopped set aggressively. In the BB, w/ 1010, I would have reraised to about $70 to isolate one player, and then bet $150 on the flop.Thanks for giving me a reason to rethink my answer.
I disagree with you here. If your playing 10 10 and its raised and called multiple ways you want more players in to get maximum value when you hit your set. If the flop comes 3 6 9 and you bet your $150 and get raised all in what do you do? What can you really beat? Do you think someone is going to go all in on that flop with A9?? No. So now you have a re-raise of $70 in there plus your $150, which is $220. So your pretty committed to the pot not even knowing if your good. Keep the pot small until you hit your hand by just smooth calling.
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Folding without question. Nothing else makes sense.

The game is 3/5 NL live game, I dont play online. Most of the table has bought in for $300. I have $500 in front of me. Im in the BB. Early position raises to $20, 2 callers. I look down at two black 10's and smooth call. The flop comes Q :D 10 :D 8 :club: .Im not in love with this flop and want to take it down right now. I bet the pot, $80. The button calls, I have more chips. (even though I dont believe that someone out chipping you matters in a cash game).The turn is the worst card in the deck, J :D .I think about my options and decide to check (dont know if that was the best play). There is about $240 in the pot and the button goes all in for $280. So its $280 to win $520 if I take it down.This person just sat down and hasnt shown a hand yet and I have never played with this person before. What is my play? Call or no? I'll post the result after some responses.
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If the flop comes 3 6 9 and you bet your $150 and get raised all in what do you do? What can you really beat? Do you think someone is going to go all in on that flop with A9??
Actually, yes. Seen it time and again. I wait for a better spot to call an all-in, personally, but to a large number of low-limit NL players, A9 is like a wet dream come true on a 3 6 9 board, regardless of preflop action. Change the hand to A3 or A6, and you MIGHT approach the range of hands that give your average recreational NL superstar pause before acting. TPTK just has a way of bringing out the most irrational impulses.
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Board: QhTh8dJh Hand Pot equity Wins Ties--------------------------------------------------------------------TsTc 50.83% 3,185 205AA-88,AK-AJ,KQ-KJ,QJ-QT,*h*h 49.17% 3,078 205edit: wow that doesn't look at all how it did when i previewed it, go here.edit2: also, i'm obviously being quite generous saying he could have any 2 hearts here, even so, this is an easy call.

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Board: QhTh8dJh Hand Pot equity Wins Ties--------------------------------------------------------------------TsTc 50.83% 3,185 205AA-88,AK-AJ,KQ-KJ,QJ-QT,*h*h 49.17% 3,078 205edit: wow that doesn't look at all how it did when i previewed it, go here.edit2: also, i'm obviously being quite generous saying he could have any 2 hearts here, even so, this is an easy call.
your range doesn't include any nine balls...- Jordan
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your range doesn't include any nine balls...- Jordan
what hands, specifically, should i add in? without any reads, what 9x hands should we assume this guy is calling a raise with preflop, and then calling on the flop with? Anyway, even adding A9-89 to his range, we still have ~42% equity, and we only need ~40%.
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what hands, specifically, should i add in? without any reads, what 9x hands should we assume this guy is calling a raise with preflop, and then calling on the flop with? Anyway, even adding A9-89 to his range, we still have ~42% equity, and we only need ~40%.
what about 99, A9 or AK makes the straight too. If you say thats an easy call for you and you would do it everytime in this spot then I bet you dont last very long. Nothing worse than calling off all your chips with a 2nd place hand.
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what about 99, A9 or AK makes the straight too. If you say thats an easy call for you and you would do it everytime in this spot then I bet you dont last very long. Nothing worse than calling off all your chips with a 2nd place hand.
he put AK in the range...- Jordan
what hands, specifically, should i add in? without any reads, what 9x hands should we assume this guy is calling a raise with preflop, and then calling on the flop with? Anyway, even adding A9-89 to his range, we still have ~42% equity, and we only need ~40%.
meh, 89 could be there,.... j9 already got there on the flop...i see what your saying..in this situationit be a tough call and I'd pretty much go with the read I had on him at the tableand blah blah...id probably call and gamble. it's not that much money.lol :club:- Jordan
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This is a very tough problem, despite some people saying it is clear-cut. That is why I hate the check. I prefer to push on this turn. The only hands that have you in bad shape are QQ, JJ, or the unlikely straight flush. Anything else you have either the best hand or 9-10 outs, leaving you around a 3.5-1 dog. By pushing you also have fold equity, as a straight or small flush might not call. By checking, you not only have this problem, but you give a free card to any hand still drawing.However, the problem here is that you have already checked, and have been put to the test with a push. Obviously this is an easy fold if you know you are beat. But if you add in the possibility of a bluff, semibluff (say AH-Q or KQ), or a mistaken value bet (rare, but apparently the case here), I believe that without a read it is right around break even to call. It depends on if you came to gamble or play it safe. I would like to think I lay it down, but often find myself making these calls, which is why I don't play NL cash games that often.To those who are worried about going broke, this is a cash game. If you are concerned with going broke, you are in the wrong game. The real problem comes if you have a big stack and the game has a fairly low max buy-in, where you can't replace your chips. If this is the case, i am more likely to lay it down and protect my stack.

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But if you add in the possibility of a bluff, semibluff (say AH-Q or KQ), or a mistaken value bet (rare, but apparently the case here
It was a mistaken value bet. He had Q :club: J :D and thought he had the best hand by turning 2 pair.
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