Trying To Work On Reads

[Actuary 3]

hand 1.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)Actuary (t1500)SB (t1500)BB (t1500)UTG (t1500)UTG+1 (t1500)MP1 (t1500)MP2 (t1500)MP3 (t1500)CO (t1500)Preflop: Actuary is Button with , . 2 folds, MP1 calls t20, MP2 calls t20, 2 folds, Actuary calls t20, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: (t100) ,, (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Actuary bets t60, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls t60, MP2 folds.Turn: (t220) (2 players)MP1 checks, Actuary bets t100, MP1 calls t100.River: (t420) (2 players)MP1 bets t220, Actuary calls t220.Final Pot: t860Draws missedHe never raised2nd Q makes it less likely I have one, and he knows that2nd Q makes it less likely he has oneNo reasonable two pairMeta game? lolEasy call?How do we like the entire hand?I used to give up on these post flop.And c/f.Lately, I've tried betting and putting in a small raise if bet into with mid pair and an uncoordinated flop. Coordinated flops are too expensive to play/protect. If I get played back at here on the flop or turn, I can be preety sure I"m beat and lay down easier.My game has always mostly been: "Try to maximize big hands, play weak to medium draws for pot odds, big draws aggressively, and tight otherwise". Lately, I've been playing more aggressively on the flop with marginal hands and calling the river donk bets, in cases such as this, when draws miss and no action supports I"m beat on prior streets.Please opine.thanks!

[trystero 0]

nhbut I fold or raise pf. I hate calling with a hand like ATo even with position. ATs though I'd call. I guess that's kinda contradictory, but with a suited ace I'm playing to hit a big hand and with an unsuited ace OTB I'm taking control of the pot. Just how I play at what appear to be weak/tight tables.Something to mention is that if you're going to stab at uncoordinated boards then you have to prepare for villain holding a passive TP. After all you know there aren't a lot of draws out there he's calling with. This particular hand could go either way; it looks like a passive QJ while at the same time a donked JT, maybe even a JTc. I really don't think he's got a busted draw though. You've shown aggression the whole way and he doesn't even bet the pot, so obviously he's not trying to force a fold. He might even be as strong as 44 and trying to get trips to raise.

[Actuary 3]

so why you say NH?you didn't seem to like any of itbtw, If blinds were like 50/100, I fold this preflop

[trystero 0]

Well, I like the flop and the turn. I dislike pf but it's not that big of a deal, just my personal preference. I mean with the ATo we're likely entering the pot with the best hand alongside position, so there are valid reasons to call, but I just don't like doing it. The river is close and can go either way. I can see arguments for calling and arguments for folding; but on the river, I prefer to call when it comes to close decisions. I don't expect to have the best hand here >50% but we don't have to have that in order for the call to be profitable.

[krup24 0]

I have played over 100 of these 10+1s on stars this month. I'd have to say the play seems to be rockish or donkish. Really really straight forward ABC poker. Not a ton of betting missed draws etc. At higher stakes this is a no brainer call.Getting 3-1 on the river its a call but we are beat here so much at these stakes I can fold here and move on.

[Briguy 0]

I raise preflop most of the time, unless I know that the limpathoners will call a raise to 100ish. AT kinda sucks multiway, I'd rather get head's up with someone and try to take it away on the flop (with position if not cards).In the call-happy limpathon scenario (which happens a lot), I like your line. If he didn't check-raise a Q on the turn with the draws that are out there, well, it's hard to read donkeys. And you'll get those chips back, or at least they'll return to the table.

[rocketpoker828 0]

I don't know if I like the turn bet, pretty much any hand can call here and you gain no info. I'd probably bet 150-200, probably like 175.I don't mind the call on the river, he hasn't shown aggression, and no draws completed.Preflop is fine too. You have position and it seems kind of senseless to raise 5xbb with AT.

[simo_8ball 0]

I play it about the same. Preflop limp is ok, flop bet is ok, turn bet maybe a touch small (but still fine) and I like the river call.

[navybuttons 15]

actuary,there are two ways which are typically seen as the ideal way to play SNGs. you probably already know this.the first is to fold, fold, fold, fold until the ICM comes into play. the reason for the folding being that you need those chips when you double up or to steal w/o getting called.the second is to play laggy using reads on people that you've gathered from having mined thousands of SNGs. if you had done tons and tons of homework you would know where you're at on the river. this hand is an example of using neither method. in the long run, this sort of play spews chips.my most common line of play here is to fold preflop. if limped i like the bet on the flop. if called i check the turn. if led at on the river i call/fold based on feel.

[Actuary 3]

I'm not sure i need to mine 1000's of SnG's to have a better than 2:1 feel on the river, given the prior action. Although, I'm sure it would help in other decisions.

[navybuttons 15]

okay, villian has 2 hands we can beat in that spot: KJ and J9. assuming he's somewhat capable. if he's bluffing that river he sure picked a hell of a card to do it on (the card we're representing).i think we're beat here more often than 2:1 to make this call. probably Q3s or something.easy laydown.

[Actuary 3]

I dont' think My turn bet represented a Q.I think he thought that as well.Thus, I think he leads most rivers, and this one is great for him.He had 99.

[trystero 0]

I dont' think My turn bet represented a Q.I think he thought that as well.Thus, I think he leads most rivers, and this one is great for him.He had 99.

That guy needs to join a strat forum.

[navybuttons 15]

I dont' think My turn bet represented a Q.I think he thought that as well.Thus, I think he leads most rivers, and this one is great for him.He had 99.

i don't get any of the play. all around i just don't get it. why would he lead most rivers? considering how bad his play is maybe 2:1 is realistic. i don't know. at what river bet do you consider folding?

[Actuary 3]

i don't get any of the play. all around i just don't get it. why would he lead most rivers? considering how bad his play is maybe 2:1 is realistic. i don't know. at what river bet do you consider folding?

He leads most rivers because I'm not representing a Q.Players at that level like to take pots aways and show me their missed draws.I don't make a habit of trying to catch bluffs, but I really thought he missed with KJ/J9. I can't pin ponit the bet I was willing to call.Bigger bets often mean more likely to be a bluff.I'm sure he hoped for a fold and 5% chance I had a worse PP, maybe.Why do you think all these horrendous beat/coolers I"m taking lately on the bubble are wearing me out? 6/9 of these players are not good.

[navybuttons 15]

looks to me like you are representing a queen.the way you played this hand is how i would play AQs, or maybe KQs if I was feeling loose.

[Actuary 3]

I certainly bet more on the flop and the turn with a Q.

[navybuttons 15]

I certainly bet more on the flop and the turn with a Q.

huh.

[copernicus 0]

The best you can do is put him on a range with the amount of information you have. He could have a small pair, though the pot sized bet on the river is fairly aggressive given your leading on the flop and turn.AQ he would have raised with, maybe even KQ but QJ and QT are possible, along with KJ and KT. Aces down to 8 if hes been tight, and down to 6 or any suited A. Middle connected cards that reach the Q maybe.Overall I think you have to call as a no worse than a slight underdog.I might have checked the turn with that safe board. It does invite a bluff on the river, but you can call as long as it isnt a huge bet. It might have cost or saved you 150 or so to do so.

[Actuary 3]

Copernicus,thanks for inputHe bet about 1/2 pot on river by the way.also, I like the turn bet because a worse 10, a pp, or KJ/J9 make up a good part of his range.And anoter discussion point.I do check turns and call river bluffs quite often. Usually I'll do it with something like QJ here, mixing that in with the play I did here. I think when you check the turn, you face bigger river bets, when that bet is a bluff. Logic: They see you as weak and are willing to risk more, certain you will fold. When you bet the turn in pos, villain has to consider that you are more likely to call now; and he might put out a smaller bluff.Of course, it depends a lot on how likely we are to be ahead, to be bluffed, to win at showdown, to be against a draw.

[tskillz187 0]

Have looked at no other responses, I bet a little more on the turn 160ish.Easy river call IMO.

[copernicus 0]

Copernicus,thanks for inputHe bet about 1/2 pot on river by the way.also, I like the turn bet because a worse 10, a pp, or KJ/J9 make up a good part of his range.And anoter discussion point.I do check turns and call river bluffs quite often. Usually I'll do it with something like QJ here, mixing that in with the play I did here. I think when you check the turn, you face bigger river bets, when that bet is a bluff. Logic: They see you as weak and are willing to risk more, certain you will fold. When you bet the turn in pos, villain has to consider that you are more likely to call now; and he might put out a smaller bluff.Of course, it depends a lot on how likely we are to be ahead, to be bluffed, to win at showdown, to be against a draw.

I agree you might face a bigger river bet if you check the turn , but the combined turn and river bets might be smaller. Whether I bet the turn here is more a function of the stacks, and with everyone at 1500 Id lean toward trying to keep the pot as small as possible, but I can see betting also.

[Actuary 3]

I agree you might face a bigger river bet if you check the turn , but the combined turn and river bets might be smaller.

I knew you'd say that.I think it's close, given my small turn bet.IMO, it decreases the river bluff by about as much as the turn bet itself.If I had bet 3/4 pot on turn, then I migght agree.Betting 1/5 pot on turn, and the combined would be higher, becasue he would really see it as weak.I bet the perfect amount. :POn a less serious note, the turn bet also gets value from worse hands and gives him a chance to raise and show enough strength to save me come money. I'm not too worried about being bluffed on the turn.

[strategy 4]

Have looked at no other responses, I bet a little more on the turn 160ish.Easy river call IMO.

This is pretty much everything I was thinking about the hand.