Daniel's Exit Hand Foxwoods

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

I don't see anything wrong with that play. If you are ahead when the money goes in, you've played the hand correctly. I'm not saying shove with KK all the time but if AK calls and they hit, it is a sick beat.

IMO, you aren't playing the hand correctly if you "over shove".Say you're in a NL $1/$2 game. You have about $150.You get KK UTG, and raise to $8CO has AK, and re-raises to $20You re-raise all in for $130 more...He callsThats would be an example of an over shove, and a bad call, which is what I was refering to. If you only had $60-$80 in that situation then moving in is probably the best play.Also that philosophy isn't true in all cases, if you call a BIG all in with 44 and the guy just happens to have 33 you're a huge favorite but you didn't play the hand well...Even though this has nothing to do with the thread...sorry all...just explaing myself.

[Dratj 0]

IMO, you aren't playing the hand correctly if you "over shove".Say you're in a NL $1/$2 game. You have about $150.You get KK UTG, and raise to $8CO has AK, and re-raises to $20You re-raise all in for $130 more...He callsThats would be an example of an over shove, and a bad call, which is what I was refering to. If you only had $60-$80 in that situation then moving in is probably the best play.

What you have said above is ridiculous. You are suggesting that I either smooth call the raise and fold if an ace flops or I raise to $60 or $80, leaving only $70 to $90 behind and then have to fold if an ace flops. Nothing wrong with shoving in the above situation. Post this hand in nl strat, I'd like to see what other people think.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

What you have said above is ridiculous. You are suggesting that I either smooth call the raise and fold if an ace flops or I raise to $60 or $80, leaving only $70 to $90 behind and then have to fold if an ace flops. Nothing wrong with shoving in the above situation. Post this hand in nl strat, I'd like to see what other people think.

You don't need to shove in for another $130. You can re-raise to $50 and still have $80 behind (IMO this is the best play in this spot). If you see the flop if gives the chance to fold if you're beat.

[All_In 0]

You don't need to shove in for another $130. You can re-raise to $50 and still have $80 behind (IMO this is the best play in this spot). If you see the flop if gives the chance to fold if you're beat.

uhhh, u do realize u have the guy dead to 3 outs, right???

[Dratj 0]

uhhh, u do realize u have the guy dead to 3 outs, right???

Exactly.

[copernicus 0]

there isnt enough information here to say if it was a good or bad play. What were the blinds/antes, absolute stack sizes, average stack size (we do know DN was well below average, but was villain?), and perhaps most importantly, we know he was "in position" to villain, but how many were left behind him, how much respect has villain been getting with his raises?This play obviously gets progressively worse the more players there are behind DN and the looser villain has been raising and getting called.

[matmaci 0]

from what I have heard of this hand and what I have read/saw(daniels video blog) it is questionable as to how I would play this flop..... now im gonna say how I woulda played this, personally I would have pushed and tried for a double up or to get to an average chip stack... from what daniel has said though with the smooth call and trapping people he played it right because he is able to read people and out play them post flop... I mean if that was the read I had on the table that I was playing I would completly make the exact same play.... generally speaking when you see someone flat calling from MP with AA they are being a fish or are lookign to trap and looking to get back into it and if they are able to do so they tend to do well ( I have no examples but I will do this in a MTT or a sit and go if I feel it is the right move to make because of the table and the way it is being played ).... but then again there is also the argument that if danial is such an amazing post flop player (which he is one of the best in my opinion) then if he got an average stack by pushing theres always that possibility he may have made it deeper and to the FT.p.s. im pretty drunk right now but tried to explain my throught process.... also I have no major cashes or anything to relate to this as of yet

[emineric 0]

DN never stated he was the best post flop player in the world, nor did anyone else in this thread. Playing your way is so predictable to any good player, thats why I'd love to have you at my table anyday emineric.

lol, did you even read this thread? reread DN's post where he clearly states few people if any(meaning around 0-3) play better postflop than he does. then read the post one or two down where a fan states maybe only phil ivey plays better. reading your last statement makes absolutely no sense. when did i ever suggest strategy? judging by your reply my guess is i won't be seeing you at MY table anytime soon. good luck trying to get there. my guess is you'll need more than your share.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

lol, did you even read this thread? reread DN's post where he clearly states few people if any(meaning around 0-3) play better postflop than he does. then read the post one or two down where a fan states maybe only phil ivey plays better. reading your last statement makes absolutely no sense. when did i ever suggest strategy? judging by your reply my guess is i won't be seeing you at MY table anytime soon. good luck trying to get there. my guess is you'll need more than your share.

I said that he never claimed to be THE best, you aren't THE best if some are better...by impling that slow playing here is not correct you are giving your opinion of how to play it. Moving in would have scared everyone out of the pot, its not like DN uses the "all in bluff" very much (as opposed to someone like Mike Matusow who might get action if he pushed in this spot)...they would know he was for real and in turn muck. He was at a point in a crap shoot tournament where doubling up was the only thing of importance, if he just collects the blinds, antes, and opening raise it is basically a lost opportunity that probably won't come around again in the near future due to the elevating blinds. It was worth the risk of busting to try and actually get value out of his AA, rather than over betting and scaring everyone out...(and Nenad would not have called the pre flop all in with K6os, he wasn't that big of chip leader to make a call like that)There, this post is actually relevant to the thread...

[CrazyJoe 0]

no small ball when the M's are low. he's setting a trap and pushing the flop knowing villian will c bet. When everyone is kinda shortstacked you can't worry about someone flopping 2 pair or a set.

I completely agree with you but isn't that what Daniel is saying in the 2nd paragraph of his response, call to see a flop and reevalutate? this is the opposite rationale of flat calling to make it more likely all the chips go in.

[Tigerlite 0]

I completely agree with you but isn't that what Daniel is saying in the 2nd paragraph of his response, call to see a flop and reevalutate? this is the opposite rationale of flat calling to make it more likely all the chips go in.

I agree with what you're saying. Daniel wanting to see lots of flops and slow playing are two very different things. With one, you can lay it down, with the other you go broke if you're opponent flops big as was the case. I would have played it differently, but I can't say that DN's play was bad. There is some logic to slow playing a big hand late in a tournament when you need to really start to accumulate chips, but I think survival is still paramount. I liken it to the way Hachem would the ME. He was patient and short-stacked until the cards gave him the opportunity to pounce.

[CrazyJoe 0]

I agree with what you're saying. Daniel wanting to see lots of flops and slow playing are two very different things. With one, you can lay it down, with the other you go broke if you're opponent flops big as was the case. I would have played it differently, but I can't say that DN's play was bad. There is some logic to slow playing a big hand late in a tournament when you need to really start to accumulate chips, but I think survival is still paramount. I liken it to the way Hachem would the ME. He was patient and short-stacked until the cards gave him the opportunity to pounce.

I agree with the way he played it given he thought that his opponent would push on almost any flop. I just didn't get his double justification which seemed to be opposite.

[emineric 0]

I said that he never claimed to be THE best, you aren't THE best if some are better...by impling that slow playing here is not correct you are giving your opinion of how to play it. Moving in would have scared everyone out of the pot, its not like DN uses the "all in bluff" very much (as opposed to someone like Mike Matusow who might get action if he pushed in this spot)...they would know he was for real and in turn muck. He was at a point in a crap shoot tournament where doubling up was the only thing of importance, if he just collects the blinds, antes, and opening raise it is basically a lost opportunity that probably won't come around again in the near future due to the elevating blinds. It was worth the risk of busting to try and actually get value out of his AA, rather than over betting and scaring everyone out...(and Nenad would not have called the pre flop all in with K6os, he wasn't that big of chip leader to make a call like that)There, this post is actually relevant to the thread...

please show me where i said anything about slowplay. i mentioned nothing about the play of the hand.