Daniel's Exit Hand Foxwoods

[ButTheyWereSuited.com 0]

first off... tough break DN. very tough break.not sure how many of you are awar just yet, but nenad medic raised preflop with K6, DN called in pos with AA. flop comes K,6,x cyanora DN.now.. coulda shoulda woulda is all that comes to mind... thoughts from DN, anyone?reraise preflop mandatory with the AA?any regrets for not popping?this sems to be the age old question of slow playing a big pp preflop...

[nutzbuster 7]

He did what he thought was right at the time. Period.I dont hate his play at all.

[Oziumrules 0]

Classic damn if you do damn if you dont situation. You want to get as much $$$$ as you can with your Aces, when you play them right your a genius, when your Aces get cracked your an idiot. He obviously had a feeling and didnt work out, I trust Daniels judgement on the hand, it just didnt work out.

[Verone 0]

How big was Medic's stack when he did this?

[nutzbuster 7]

How big was Medic's stack when he did this?

When play started Medic had almost a 4 to one chip lead (about 1 Mil. to Daniels 261K). Not sure what they had when the hand went down but it appears that those numbers were about the same at that time.

[trystero 0]

Looks fine to me. He knows that villain will likely c/bet so he would simply push any flop and hope to get a loose call from TP. Unfortunate that he got outflopped like that.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

When I made the play I had the following thoight in my head: what player will most likely help me win the tournament? Clearly, doubling up here against the button, blinds, or the raiser gave me the best chance to win a big pot and put me above the average. Re-raising pre-flop would likely have gotten me to 350,000, still below the average. It's unfortunate, but it goes with my strategy all tournament long and that was to see flops. Few, if any, players play better after the flop than I do. Why not see as many flops as possible?

[socalpoker_j 1]

When I made the play I had the following thoight in my head: what player will most likely help me win the tournament? Clearly, doubling up here against the button, blinds, or the raiser gave me the best chance to win a big pot and put me above the average. Re-raising pre-flop would likely have gotten me to 350,000, still below the average. It's unfortunate, but it goes with my strategy all tournament long and that was to see flops. Few, if any, players play better after the flop than I do. Why not see as many flops as possible?

Who are these few that have better post-flop play than you? Allen Cunningham?

[ButTheyWereSuited.com 0]

When I made the play I had the following thoight in my head: what player will most likely help me win the tournament? Clearly, doubling up here against the button, blinds, or the raiser gave me the best chance to win a big pot and put me above the average. Re-raising pre-flop would likely have gotten me to 350,000, still below the average. It's unfortunate, but it goes with my strategy all tournament long and that was to see flops. Few, if any, players play better after the flop than I do. Why not see as many flops as possible?

hey DN..thanks for the reply. always appreciate when ya take the time out for us 'minions'. i guess i posted this just to further the life long poker quandry- "to raise or not to raise"... if you happen to see this reply- i know off topic- but in the TOC you seemd to be wearing a ziggy marley shirt w/ what one can only guess has cannabis leaves on it. i believe i read b4 you werent a smoker, does this mean perhaps you are at last an advocate? well, have a safe trip back home sir.peace!

[offset 0]

Who are these few that have better post-flop play than you? Allen Cunningham?

Allen is a great player, but I think Daniel has him beaten in that department. If any, Phil Ivey might be the better post flop player.

[showstopper24 0]

thats a very tough break. playing these hands can always lead you into trouble even though they look so good. get em next time.

[Dratj 0]

When I made the play I had the following thoight in my head: what player will most likely help me win the tournament? Clearly, doubling up here against the button, blinds, or the raiser gave me the best chance to win a big pot and put me above the average. Re-raising pre-flop would likely have gotten me to 350,000, still below the average. It's unfortunate, but it goes with my strategy all tournament long and that was to see flops. Few, if any, players play better after the flop than I do. Why not see as many flops as possible?

True, but with the M's so low, this is what I think you were really thinking:Slow play AA to disguise hand, know villian will likely c-bet then shove flop.

[Balloon guy 158]

Allen is a great player, but I think Daniel has him beaten in that department. If any, Phil Ivey might be the better post flop player.

And Phil Helmuthoh and Mike Matusowmaybe Jamie Gold, but I'll give that a maybe not.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Absolutely nothing wrong with the way DN played this hand, especially if Medic is raising a lot of pots. If he re-raises he probably takes it down pre-flop. If he flat calls he goes to the flop as a big favorite and probably doubles up. Especially if the villain c-bets alot. You play tourneys to win, this is the kind of play you make when you're playing to win.

[try__an__hit 0]

And Phil Helmuthoh and Mike Matusowmaybe Jamie Gold, but I'll give that a maybe not.

No one can out play Gold lol, he flops the nuts every time.

[Tigerlite 0]

When I made the play I had the following thoight in my head: what player will most likely help me win the tournament? Clearly, doubling up here against the button, blinds, or the raiser gave me the best chance to win a big pot and put me above the average. Re-raising pre-flop would likely have gotten me to 350,000, still below the average. It's unfortunate, but it goes with my strategy all tournament long and that was to see flops. Few, if any, players play better after the flop than I do. Why not see as many flops as possible?

Daniel: This reply is no diss, but I would have played it differently than you did. After Medic raised, I would have made a healthy re-raise. He may have called since he had such a large chip advantage over you. If he called, you would have been busted anyway with that flop. If he didn't call, you would have taken down a small, but not insignificant, pot. As you say, you were playing to see a lot of flops, so if you take this small pot pre-flop, you would have gotten more chips to see more flops with. I guess I don't believe in limping with aces especially when there is a raiser in the pot who is aggressive like Medic. Again, I don't blame you. I see the logic of your play.I am risk averse and when I can't put my opponent on a hand, then I play more aggressive pre-flop with a big hand so that I can get some information. Tough beat for sure.

[showstopper24 0]

He did what he thought was right at the time. Period.I dont hate his play at all.

good point-it was the correct play because daniel was trapping, its a shame that nedad got lucky but daniel thought he could get chips with his paly, and unfourtunatley he lost

[psujohn 0]

I really don't understand how anyone with even the most basic understanding of tournament play can criticize the way DN played the hand. He needed to accumulate chips in a hurry. Winning the PF pot wouldn't be horrible but taking a risk to win a much larger post flop pot is not only reasonable I think it is unquestionably the better play. If you think in terms of EV I think that will be readily apparent.

[CrazyJoe 0]

When I made the play I had the following thoight in my head: what player will most likely help me win the tournament? Clearly, doubling up here against the button, blinds, or the raiser gave me the best chance to win a big pot and put me above the average. Re-raising pre-flop would likely have gotten me to 350,000, still below the average. It's unfortunate, but it goes with my strategy all tournament long and that was to see flops. Few, if any, players play better after the flop than I do. Why not see as many flops as possible?

obviously i'm missing a concept here, but this seems somewhat contradictory to me, the point of calling raises with big hands to see flops is to keep pots small and control pot size OR disguise your hand to get all the chips in on the flop, no? Either you were calling since you knew he would push the flop and wanted to play a big pot (slowplay) or you were flat-calling so as to not commit your whole stack with one pair and control the pot size (small ball) Someone fill me in on what i'm missing, the first paragraph and second paragraph seem to be different justifications.

[Dratj 0]

obviously i'm missing a concept here, but this seems somewhat contradictory to me, the point of calling raises with big hands to see flops is to keep pots small and control pot size OR disguise your hand to get all the chips in on the flop, no? Either you were calling since you knew he would push the flop and wanted to play a big pot (slowplay) or you were flat-calling so as to not commit your whole stack with one pair and control the pot size (small ball) Someone fill me in on what i'm missing, the first paragraph and second paragraph seem to be different justifications.

no small ball when the M's are low. he's setting a trap and pushing the flop knowing villian will c bet. When everyone is kinda shortstacked you can't worry about someone flopping 2 pair or a set.

[CBFalcon 0]

To argue that Daniel shouldn't have tried to set a trap late in a tourney when M is low with AA....well that's almost like saying you never trap.and we all know that's not true.I think he made the only play that makes sense if he wanted to win the tourney. To try and win a smaller pot preflop is the equivalent of just trying to move up a few more spots in the money. Is there going to be a better double up opportunity later in the tourney than AA against an aggressive chip leader heads up in a pot?

[emineric 0]

It's unfortunate, but it goes with my strategy all tournament long and that was to see flops. Few, if any, players play better after the flop than I do. Why not see as many flops as possible?

how'd that work out for you on HSP?

[emineric 0]

Allen is a great player, but I think Daniel has him beaten in that department. If any, Phil Ivey might be the better post flop player.

guys, i know we all love DN, that's why we're here. but i think a lot of you overestimate his playing ability. i think the fact that he only puts in like 15-20 cash game sessions a year is really bringing him back down to the median. saying perhaps only phil ivey is the better post flop player than this guy is rediculous. i'm sure there are much much more than a handful of online pros that would own daniel pretty good in the long run. as evidence see how joe cassidy handled him in their hu session. antonious crushed him online. well you might argue his game is NL. we've all seen his results in that venue. i know, sample size is small, but it wasn't just bad beats as DN liked to put it, he flat out got outplayed by half of these guys. he's a very good tournament player, and seems pretty good in the mixed cash games, but to say he's the best post flop player in the world is funny to me. mike matasow said it best when talking to daniel, "i wont bluff you, you call down everytime!". mike says a lot of things, but he was on point with this one.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

guys, i know we all love DN, that's why we're here. but i think a lot of you overestimate his playing ability. i think the fact that he only puts in like 15-20 cash game sessions a year is really bringing him back down to the median. saying perhaps only phil ivey is the better post flop player than this guy is rediculous. i'm sure there are much much more than a handful of online pros that would own daniel pretty good in the long run. as evidence see how joe cassidy handled him in their hu session. antonious crushed him online. well you might argue his game is NL. we've all seen his results in that venue. i know, sample size is small, but it wasn't just bad beats as DN liked to put it, he flat out got outplayed by half of these guys. he's a very good tournament player, and seems pretty good in the mixed cash games, but to say he's the best post flop player in the world is funny to me. mike matasow said it best when talking to daniel, "i wont bluff you, you call down everytime!". mike says a lot of things, but he was on point with this one.

DN never stated he was the best post flop player in the world, nor did anyone else in this thread. Clearly DN is very successful with his "small ball" strategy (which I have adapted to be one of my main styles, I'd like to think my play mirrors DN's, therefore I would of played the AA the same way) that him, and several other pro's use. Everyone is always looking to play a BIG pot when they have a big hand, when they should really slow down and get value out of their hands (by the way, this fast style that some are advocating is the cause for 99.9% of bad beats live or online...ppl don't see flops, turns, and rivers because they think they could get drawn out on and not know it. So they over shove with KK and a guy calls with AK hits the A on the flop and its a "sick beat"...if you saw the flop you coulda mucked when the A hit...). If he re-raises he picks up blinds and antes, with the structure that Foxwoods had those are useless, but if he flat calls pre flop and his opponent even touches the flop he'd put DN all in and DN has a shot at a lot of chips. Playing your way is so predictable to any good player, thats why I'd love to have you at my table anyday emineric.

[Dratj 0]

So they over shove with KK and a guy calls with AK hits the A on the flop and its a "sick beat"...if you saw the flop you coulda mucked when the A hit...).

I don't see anything wrong with that play. If you are ahead when the money goes in, you've played the hand correctly. I'm not saying shove with KK all the time but if AK calls and they hit, it is a sick beat.