Caesar's Palace- Player Went All In And Ran Away With $ After I Called

[MychCumstien 0]

Hey Mich, law 101 buddy: sue the bastards!I am being completely serious here, sue J.R for what he owes you, hell sue him for more, argue lost wages or lost poker earnings, or something to that affect. Then sue Ceasars as well for allowing this to happen. Whether or not they are right or wrong, even the threat of a law suit, and loss to their reputation may make them come around. Besides, you have NOTHING else to lose, and everything to gain.You have more than enough evidence, take it to small claims court, no lawyer fees required. Bring the statements you and the others filled out at the time. The best thing you can do is to be proactive here, and go after them. If you do, then you should definately get your money back and then some, between the criminal and civil lawsuits. Go for it buddy, bust their asses!

[showstopper24 0]

Hey Mich, law 101 buddy: sue the bastards!I am being completely serious here, sue J.R for what he owes you, hell sue him for more, argue lost wages or lost poker earnings, or something to that affect. Then sue Ceasars as well for allowing this to happen. You have more than enough evidence, take it to small claims court, no lawyer fees required. Bring the statements you and the others filled out at the time. The best thing you can do is to be proactive here, and go after them. If you do, then you should definately get your money back and then some, between the criminal and civil lawsuits. Go for it buddy, bust their asses!

i wouldn't sue ceasars-it seemed like they were trying to help

[MychCumstien 0]

i wouldn't sue ceasars-it seemed like they were trying to help

this is business and they're in the way. If they were really helping, then the situation wouldn't have developed like this. It sounds more like spineless managment, and they should be held accountable as well, for not taking care of their casino patrons.

[cubsfan04 0]

i wouldn't sue ceasars-it seemed like they were trying to help

it what way? they didnt do anything accept wash their hands of it.

[koolromeo 0]

based on my experience trying to collect debts using the court system, the OP is going to have a really hard time getting his money. i own a video store. from time to time i would have people not return movies or vcr's. i would go to court, win the case, and get money in $25 increments for a while, then nothing. assumming that all the witnesses were there on vacation, the prosecution will not be able to call the eyewitnesses to the stand. sworn statements don't carry nearly as much weight as oral testimony. unfortunately, i would estimate that the offender will get probation, and the Op will end up gettimg far less than he is owed.

[MychCumstien 0]

based on my experience trying to collect debts using the court system, the OP is going to have a really hard time getting his money. i own a video store. from time to time i would have people not return movies or vcr's. i would go to court, win the case, and get money in $25 increments for a while, then nothing. assumming that all the witnesses were there on vacation, the prosecution will not be able to call the eyewitnesses to the stand. sworn statements don't carry nearly as much weight as oral testimony. unfortunately, i would estimate that the offender will get probation, and the Op will end up gettimg far less than he is owed.

well he's out 1200 bucks now as it is. I figure he'd have nothing to lose by at least trying. Besides, the outcome of the criminal case will carry "heavy" weight in a civil case. If J.R. is convicted, that can only help a civil case. And if he isn't, then at least the OP has another avenue to try and claim his lost bet, and as much as it would suck, 25 bucks a month is still better than nothing. As far as Ceasars is concerned, they are trash, plain and simple. Personally I think it's Ceasars' fault that the situation developed the way it did. Cheating is cheating, anyway you slice it. No, it wasn't at a BJ table, but it did happen in their casino. I think it should be handled the same, i.e. J.R taken to a room with no cameras, and have his pockets "emptied"; then hauled off by police. I think Ceasars grossly mismanaged this situation and that the OP should go after them too. Hey, the more "outs" he has, the better chance he has of getting paid.

[Royal27 0]

Most the responses are based on emotion rather based on the spirit of the law and are looked at through tunnel vision. You may think the victim is out money when in fact the victim is out nothing, what everyone does not understanding, Nevada has laws that pertain to this type of crime. Look at from this point of respective: you're on jury.1. What are the casino poker rules? 2. Are the rules laws or just rules?3. Does every casino apply the same rules or are their different interpretations?4. Since one player acted out of turn, other players followed and have acted out of turn, can they withdraw their bet and or change their decision - same would apply to a player who said fold out of turn and now wants to call.5. Is the casino responsible for the debt? How does Nevada Gaming law(s) read?

And how is he out nothing? Enlighten me. The rest of your response doesn't address this. I guess you are trying to do so with number 4, but the player's acting out of turn does not allow someone who has already acted to change his mind.I also never said anything about a jury, so I'm not sure where you are going with all of the rest. I just said he was owed and explained why. I'd love to hear why you think the all-in bet can be recalled.

[David_Nicoson 1]

I don't know the legal issues. These are my opinions.

1. Caesar's has an ethical obligation to either collect or cover the bet. They collect rake in return for a supposedly fair game. Settling disputes such as this is almost their entire product. They aren't pulling down $150/hr. from a table to pay for cards and felt. I've seen the Mirage cover in a poker dispute that was much murkier in an interest of cutomer service.
2. It's a crock that money is collected "as evidence", as if the fact that it was money was in dispute. Yeah, I know. I'm sure that's how the world works.

This is a tough break. I hope you end up collecting.

[trystero 0]

He then said 'I'll put him all in.'

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...c=74010&hl=

[Viking145 0]

Everyone did the right thing in this case except the villain. You are fortunate that the table supported you, and the floor made the right call.I witnessed a similar incident (for about $900) recently at a cardroom in WA, and I was the only player willing to back the hero. In that case, no one bet out of turn, but the hero flipped his cards up after the villain said "I'll put you all in." It did not help that the villain was a regular who was friendly with the floor.Unfortunately, you were playing with an amoral degenerate. A poker table is a rules based communtiy. Some of those rules are enforced by the house, some by the players, but some conduct is governed by the individual, and you ran into a bad one. The house is limited in what it can do and appears to have acted in good faith here.

[13CARDS 0]

1. Action out of turn may be binding. Since the OP acted out of turn by announcing "Call", his action could be declared NOT BINDING.2. "I put you all in" is not a valid wager. Player A cannot bet Player B's chips. Only Player B can put Player B's chips all in.These are two points that Caesar's will use to counter your argument that Caesar's should pay you the $1255.

[MychCumstien 0]

1. Action out of turn may be binding. Since the OP acted out of turn by announcing "Call", his action could be declared NOT BINDING.2. "I put you all in" is not a valid wager. Player A cannot bet Player B's chips. Only Player B can put Player B's chips all in.These are two points that Caesar's will use to counter your argument that Caesar's should pay you the $1255.

The issue isn't whether or not this was a "legal" bet. According to the OP, Ceasars declared on the scene at the time that the wager was legally binding, as did the authorities, hence the villain was carted off to jail, and is now awaiting trial under felony robbery charges.

[Trail Boss Mitch 0]

The issue isn't whether or not this was a "legal" bet. According to the OP, Ceasars declared on the scene at the time that the wager was legally binding, as did the authorities, hence the villain was carted off to jail, and is now awaiting trial under felony robbery charges.

Good thing JR's in trouble...he deserves whatever he gets. But I must agree that some of the blame has to be shared.1. Don't act out of turn.2. Wait until chips have been moved.3. If screwed, move on. Learn from the situation and next time don't get so excited, wait until it's your action, size up the situation, make sure the all-in is backed up by action and not just words, then make your decision. Yea, verbal commitments are binding...but not always immediately enforceable.4. Keep things in perspective...this is one incident out of thousands. Don't let this one situation ruin a lifetime of fun and poker profits.

[mcpickl 0]

Lack of intelligence is the real crime in this response... re-read my post, try real hard to understand what it means. Then respond!

Lack of intelligence?I re-read your post, since you asked so nicely by calling me a moron, and here's what I gather.You told the OP to stop whining like a wench when he expected to be paid his $1200 when a player said "I'll put you all in" and he called with the winning hand. So I've tried real hard to understand and am now responding.You're a jerk if you don't think the OP should be upset that he didn't get his $1200 immediately and you think it's unreasonable for him to be less than thrilled that he may get it months from now.How about this, transfer me $1200 on a poker site of your choice, and maybe I'll give it back in six months? If I feel like it.Let me know what you think when you return from your Mensa meeting to slum it at this forum with all of us morons.

[beans-n-icewater 18]

The casinos ran into the same thing years ago and did something about it...Notice that dice tables say somewhere on the layout "No call bets"A crook would walk up to the table with a large roll in hand about to buy in and say "Gimme six across the board" right before a shooter was about to roll...If the dealer said "Its a bet"... the scam was onIf the guy rolled a number, he threw down $600 (or $6000)...If it was a 2,3, or 12, he gave the dealer $6...I see the same rule coming for poker

[burgerman 0]

I have played dice at Caesars the last fifteen years and some small amount of poker. I find their behavior to be out of character. When a controversial situation happens at a table game, there is a quick resolution usually in the player's favor. I'm surprised that they did not make you whole and deal with JR directly. I will bring this to the attention of Caesars Management during my next trip there in early December. I usually check in with senior executives to visit and comment on hotel services for them. Please give me a bit of contact information so that they can get to you directly. I'm sorry for your trouble and I hope to be able to help some.Best --Burgerman

[psujohn 0]

1. Action out of turn may be binding. Since the OP acted out of turn by announcing "Call", his action could be declared NOT BINDING.

Irrelevant. Presumably the dealer allow the player in between to act and then turned to OP for his action which of course would be to call. Now if villain took his money off the table before OP was allowed to act in turn ... I suppose that he could argue that his bet wasn't called when he took his money off the table and therefore he's not responsible for it. Doubt anyone would agree but he could argue that.

2. "I put you all in" is not a valid wager. Player A cannot bet Player B's chips. Only Player B can put Player B's chips all in.These are two points that Caesar's will use to counter your argument that Caesar's should pay you the $1255.

"I put you all-in" is equivalent to saying "I'll bet enough to put you all-in should you wish to call". Sort of like how saying "I'll see your bet" is equivalent to saying "call". Or if a player is facing a $100 bet and says "Here's $100". In either case you wouldn't allow him to raise (string-bet) because he verbally declared a call even without using the word "call".Neither of these have anything to do with the matter though. The ruling by the floor was that the all-in and call were valid and binding. Caesars isn't cover the bet because the bet wasn't between Caesars and the OP. The bet was between two players. Caesars did everything they legally could to enforce the rules. They're not allowed to go into JRs pockets and extract the chips/cash. They also agreed to work with the proper authorities to resolve the situation. I can't see that they'd be responsible to do any more. Yes, they could have offered to cover the bet as a goodwill gesture but they're not required to by any ethical or legal rules.

[logic411 0]

That is quite brutal. Let's just hope it's pursued to the greatest extent of the law. Examples sometimes need to be made. Good Luck.

[Berak 0]

This is complete BS. I would be far more angry at Ceaser's than the villian. So, if this happened at a BJ table, at a Casino where money plays, they wouldn't go into the perps pockets? Bullcrap. They should be every bit as diligent about recouping your money. I wouldn't ever go back to that establishment.

[finztotheleft 0]

If there is a law that they can't take the money out of the players' pockets, then I understand why they could not do that. From the OP's description of the viliian starting to grab money and chips and shove them into his pocket, I am not visualizing a smooth one step transfer. Wouldn't the dealer have some obligation to stand up and put his hands over the chips/cash in front of the villian to prevent him from taking it all from the table ? Was security called for immediately ?Why do some casinos not allow cash on the table ? Is it specifically because in cases like this chips are more difficult to gather quickly ? An answer to this and the above questions would guide me in a decision in whether or not to try to sue the casino.Although it has no legal implications, I consider the lack of any offer to comp you a free room and nice dinner pretty schmucky.An all round bad beat OP. I hope you get your money back.

[Dratj 0]

I hope the villian gets banned for life from any poker room in Vegas.

[psujohn 0]

Why do some casinos not allow cash on the table ?

My guess is because it would be terribly easy to play with counterfeit money. You hand your cash over to the chip runner he brings it to the cage where they're trained to verify the bill is legit before giving you your chips. Even table games they'll often run that counterfeit pen thing over $100 bills.

[Mercury69 3]

lol?

[David_Nicoson 1]

1. Action out of turn may be binding. Since the OP acted out of turn by announcing "Call", his action could be declared NOT BINDING.

This is a huge non-point. The hero's call may not be binding. The villain acted in turn and then mucked.

[Dratj 0]

1. Action out of turn may be binding. Since the OP acted out of turn by announcing "Call", his action could be declared NOT BINDING.2. "I put you all in" is not a valid wager. Player A cannot bet Player B's chips. Only Player B can put Player B's chips all in.These are two points that Caesar's will use to counter your argument that Caesar's should pay you the $1255.

Imagine yourself as the OP. How would you react if a supervisor told you that because of the above that it's ok for the villian to walk away? The villian is clearly in the wrong, if you ever rule against me when something like that happens to me at Niagara, forgive me now if I am not in the least way pleasant towards you.