Aa, Been Getting Bullied All Night Again.

[Rman3911 0]

Same deal, just not sure if I'm getting a play put on me or not.Prima Poker skinLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $0.50/$110 playersConverterPre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG+1 with UTG folds, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, 7 folds.Flop: (5.5SB, 2 players)Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.Turn: (3.75BB, 2 players)Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls.River: (7.75BB, 2 players)Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls.Results:Final pot: 9.75BBUTG+2 shows Kc QcHero shows Ah Ac

[Moneyball16 0]

I dont think folding is an option. Also dont post results, even if you put them in white.

[RISEorFall 0]

more often than not this is a bad two pair or AJ or something.call down easily standard.

[Rman3911 0]

more often than not this is a bad two pair or AJ or something.call down easily standard.

Yeah I though he was making a play with AJ, but with the way things are going I was having the same ol' doubts again. I guess I have to get my mind right again and be optomistic that making the right plays will pay off eventually. I'm going to post more hands as I have questions.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Looks good to me, I play it the same.

[CoranMoran 0]

folding is never an option here--cm

[RISEorFall 0]

anybody like raising the river when we might have just counterfeited villain's 2 pair?

[Zach6668 513]

anybody like raising the river when we might have just counterfeited villain's 2 pair?

Yeah. Raise/fold maybe.He'll almost never 3-bet 2 pair here, unless he's retarded... but he'll always 3-bet a boat... I'm down with that, I think.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Yeah. Raise/fold maybe.He'll almost never 3-bet 2 pair here, unless he's retarded... but he'll always 3-bet a boat... I'm down with that, I think.

Don't raise/fold when you can see a showdown. That's just silly. I'm drunk.Seriously though, I don't think it's smart to raise/fold when you have a chance to show the hand down. you risk losing the whole pot for one bet.

[Actuary 3]

RiverBet/Fold >>>>> Check/Raise/Foldyes ?

[BudBundy 0]

Why are we betting river in the first place?Are we value betting cus we have the best hand?Or are we betting to make him fold his better hand?He is no way folding a better hand here.If we are value betting we maybe get called by AJ .I agree with Cincikid i think its an easy check/call.

[Actuary 3]

Why are we betting river in the first place?I agree with Cincikid i think its an easy check/call.

TJ/J9 also call, they are better than AJ.Here's the argument for bet/fold over c/c.Let's pretend villain never raises or bets a worse hand.And always bets/raises a better hand.And always calls with AJ, KJ, TJ, J9 - but checks behind with themAnd folds worse handsNow, you would have to agree under that scenario Bet/Fold is far better than c/c. We are putting in 1 bet when behind either way; but at least making something when he has two pair by leading out.Now, the downside is how often are we bluffed off of a better hand?How often would he fold J9/JT when we lead out, and bet if chekd to?How often does he bluff at it on river because he was semi lbuffing the turn?I think this favors a bet/fold line.I imagine that's where some marginal gains are made in the toughest games.(edit to add: he has 99 here a fair amount, too, not just T9s/J9s/JTs)

[CoranMoran 0]

TJ/J9 also call, they are better than AJ.Here's the argument for bet/fold over c/c.

The analysis makes sense.But to me, it comes down to the fact that I just don't see Villain cold calling preflop with J9/JT too often.Thus I discount the possibility that his two pair was just counterfited.--cm

[Actuary 3]

The analysis makes sense.But to me, it comes down to the fact that I just don't see Villain cold calling preflop with J9/JT too often.Thus I discount the possibility that his two pair was just counterfited.--cm

so, what is the value of a check?this is a very interesting river imo

[CoranMoran 0]

It's not my style to play an overpair cautiously.So I will share how I typically play this hand from the start.I am not fearing 2 pair yet on this turn.(If the board were KQJ, I would feel differently.)I believe Villain most likely has Top Pair and/or the draw.While I view KQ as the hand to fear.But I feel we are usually still ahead, so I actually 3bet this turn.My hope is to win 3 more big bets rather than possibly winning only 1 if we were to only call down the turn and check the river.If we are going to only call the turn raise (like OP), then checking the river seems more consistant.But it's just not my normal way handling this hand as a whole.--CM

[BudBundy 0]

Great analysises.This is a like poker school.

[Actuary 3]

It's not my style to play an overpair cautiously.So I will share how I typically play this hand from the start.I am not fearing 2 pair yet on this turn.(If the board were KQJ, I would feel differently.)I believe Villain most likely has Top Pair and/or the draw.While I view KQ as the hand to fear.But I feel we are usually still ahead, so I actually 3bet this turn.--CM

and call down if capped?Hoping you've countefeited him on the river?Or, I presume you put him on top pair still enough on the turn cap and pot so big, you'd call river even without 2 pair?

[CoranMoran 0]

and call down if capped?Hoping you've countefeited him on the river?Or, I presume you put him on top pair still enough on the turn cap and pot so big, you'd call river even without 2 pair?

Yes.If capped, I call down, whether we improve on the river or not.Do you think this is too LAG?--cm

[Actuary 3]

Yes.If capped, I call down, whether we improve on the river or not.Do you think this is too LAG?--cm

that falls into the category of: We put in so many bets and end up with a lot of information in a pot too big to fold for 1 more, when we may still be ahead of an agressive semi bluffer, or over played TP, or slow played QQ/KK.I think against typical players, 3 betting the turn and folding the river UI is optimal. However, I almost never play that way because I don't want to be outplayed by AJ/QQ/KK here. I play a low variance style, calling the raise and c/c the river. I think I lose some BB's.Will villain semi bluff, or play QTs this way? How aggressive is villain? How likely is he to wait for the turn to raise with AJ ? What's his opening range?It's always possible villain slow played QQ/KK.On the other hand, most players that play draws or pair+draw strongly on the turn, will put in one more bet on the river. We have several outs vs two pair but few vs sets/straights. It would be fairly complex to see under what reads we can call a turn cap and fold river.I tend to call down w/o 3 betting unles my read is strong he semi bluffs a lot. Vs AJ, 3-betting will get called and then I'm c/c river. AJ will check behind a lot. Would you lead river if our 3 bet is just called? I don't because the draw missed, so I'd like to see what he raised with and not be trapped by another raise and give him chance to bet at it. Against KQ/Sets, we lose 2 more BB's by 3-betting turn. We only lose value vs draws and QQ/KK. Some of which will bet the river when we don't 3-bet the turn, anyway.I do want to add more of that lag style of finding more bets.It's just hard for me to put in that many bets and still feel good about seeing showdown, given the typical low stakes opponents in full ring.