Two Bullets, Now What?

[blakheart 3]

Live $100 max buy in, $2 $2 blinds, 9 handed.Villian is loose, solid player.StacksVillian $350Hero $290Hero has A 10 on the buttonUTG raises $10, UTG +1 calls, Villian calls, Hero calls, blinds fold. FLOP J J 4 UTG checks, UTG +1 checks, Villian checks, Hero bets $20, UTG folds, UTG +1 folds, VIllian calls.Turn A Villian checks, Hero bets $45, villian callsRiver J Villian bets $55Villian was slow to call both the flop bet and the turn bet.

[CBass1724 1]

<Reluctantly call>

[Peak01 0]

OMG, please fold this preflop next time! You only have $25 left so you have to call now. Pray that you get out of this donkey hand with a chopped pot.

[CBass1724 1]

Doesn't he have $215 left? Started with $290...

[Acid_Knight 2]

Fold preflop.Don't bluff 3 other people on the flop.Don't bet the turn.Call the river, but look unhappy about it.

[Peak01 0]

Doesn't he have $215 left? Started with $290...

Ooops, thanks CBass. Either way you have to call and hope for a chop.

[DonkSlayer 1]

I think we're ahead quite often here but don't think a raise will get paid off by a lesser hand. I don't hate how you played it, although I'm probably mucking preflop.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

What beats us?Pocket Aces or Jx.Doesn't smell like pocket Aces to me. We could be up against quads, but I think we need to pay this one off to see them.

[blakheart 3]

Help me out with why to fold preflop?A 10 off on the button for $10 with large stacks out there dosen't carry enough implied odds??The flop bet is a bluff into a board that is unlikely to have hit anyone.On the turn, I improve to beat any PP that calls the flop. I am still behind a Jack, 44 or AK, but ahead of any other hand that flat calls the flop.

[TB17 0]

this isn't really a "mess", just call...

[DaBruins 0]

Help me out with why to fold preflop?A 10 off on the button for $10 with large stacks out there dosen't carry enough implied odds??The flop bet is a bluff into a board that is unlikely to have hit anyone.On the turn, I improve to beat any PP that calls the flop. I am still behind a Jack, 44 or AK, but ahead of any other hand that flat calls the flop.

You can include implied odds, I still think folding is the correct play preflop in most games. I'd rather have 87s.I actually do think its a mess. I wouldn't call preflop. I wouldn't bet the flop with so many EP players who raised/called on the previous street. If I do bet the flop and get called, I'm usually not betting on the turn. As for the river, I'd reluctantly called as played this way.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Help me out with why to fold preflop?A 10 off on the button for $10 with large stacks out there dosen't carry enough implied odds??

If you have net positive implied odds with ATo here, it's because of your position and your relative skill not because of the merits of the hand. It's pretty likely that you're dominated by a better ace with this hand or a pocket pair greater than TT. If the flop comes ten high or something like A K T, it's very possible for you to lose a lot of money. Contrast that to a set-mining with a medium pair or just playing random cheese, with which it's often very clear where you stand after the flop.

The flop bet is a bluff into a board that is unlikely to have hit anyone.

Fair enough.

On the turn, I improve to beat any PP that calls the flop. I am still behind a Jack, 44 or AK, but ahead of any other hand that flat calls the flop.

The relevent question is where do we stand if the villain calls our bet.

[EurekaKid 0]

Fold preflop.Don't bluff 3 other people on the flop.Don't bet the turn.Call the river, but look unhappy about it.

Sums it up really. There is a new book available I have heard about by Fox and Harker, something along the lines of "Why You Lose At Poker". From what I've heard they have a lot to say about these sort of pre-flop calls.