100nl Sh

[rwood 0]

im sitting on 95 just sat down about 1.5 orbits ago. i've raised about 3 or 4 hands and have been involved in 2 other pots, havent shown anything down yet when i have won. 6 handedCO has 100ishMP has 100ishHero in CO w/ J 9 :club:MP limps, Hero raises to 4, CO reraises to 9, MP calls, Hero callsflop (28.50)J 8 7 :diamond:MP checks, Hero checks, CO bets 20, MP folds, Hero raises 86 all in...pretty standard i think...no?

[DonkSlayer 1]

Um.Your raise is too small for a steal, so hopefully you wanted to play J9os out of position.You were re-raised. Time to fold. You didn't. You push with TP/WK and a gutshot when the CO that showed a ton of strength preflop. You need CO to not have a J or better more than 50% of the time here for this not to be -EV. With no other information, I don't think we're there.

[No_Neck 0]

Um.Your raise is too small for a steal, so hopefully you wanted to play J9os out of position.You were re-raised. Time to fold. You didn't. You push with TP/WK and a gutshot when the CO that showed a ton of strength preflop. You need CO to not have a J or better more than 50% of the time here for this not to be -EV. With no other information, I don't think we're there.

I agree, I often overvalue top pair top kicker. With this hand you want to make a small pot not a big one.

[rwood 0]

are you kidding?first off i raised to iso MP who was limping a bunchwhen i got reraised it was only 5 more to me with the pot containing 25 so yea im calling w/ 5-1 odds w/ almost any holdingand im not pushiing w/ my J here because i think im good right now, although i may be up against AK, he's also going to have to make a pretty tough call for 66 more getting 2-1 w/ overpair here. + the fact im sitting on pair + gutter + bdf which may be good 9 outs if i do get calledpretty weak anyone that says foldEDIT: also he could have easily reraised w/ 99 or TT in which case im crushing. folding here is out of the question IMO

[DonkSlayer 1]

Don't think anybody mentioned folding postflop. I said fold preflop. I know he COULD have 99/1010 here, but remember that you need to be ahead more than 50% for this to be +Ev. And with the other thing you said about the MP, it didn't work: he called, then you got raised. You really hit this flop marginally and if you wanted to keep playing you needed to lead, I think.

[rwood 0]

fold preflop? ok. EDIT: so open pushing here? i think that has merit, but i really wanted to know MP's action first so i thought check raising was better

[DonkSlayer 1]

fold preflop? ok. EDIT: so open pushing here? i think that has merit, but i really wanted to know MP's action first so i thought check raising was better

I think you should. I know you disagree b/c of the odds the reraise was laying, but IMO you have to hit the flop harder than you did to really continue with something as aggressive as a c/r allin. I'm looking to hit two pair or trips if I'm calling the reraise.I don't think you need to open-push. If you led for $30, the CO on a $100 stack would be very transparent from then on out. If he raises you can be almost certain you're beat; if he just calls I think you can push a safe turn and he'll probably find the fold button with 99/1010.

[Peak01 0]

are you kidding?pretty weak anyone that says fold

You did post this for advice correct? If you already had all the answers then don't post it next time. Preflop is questionable. Calling this is not bad but if you are going to play these hands OOP then you need to be a strong postflop player and know how to keep the pot small. Since you did call then you are looking to hit a flop "HARD" and TP/WK is not "HARD". Getting all your chips in on this board to a preflop reraiser is borderline donkish. Since you did put all your chips in I go back to my above statement about being a strong postflop player and next time you should fold your marginal hand OOP.

[rwood 0]

ok well if i lead for 30 and he raises which will most likely be because of an overpair then the pot will contain 80+60=140 so i'd have to call 60 morewhich is laying me 2.33-1 against an overpair that is an insta call, so why not shove it in to begin with? im about 36-64 here against overpair...i think if im getting it AI i like to be the one shoving

[krup24 0]

I hate PF and flop action here. Are you kidding me with coming over the top of a strong bet with a pair of jacks and a nine kicker? Especially being new with no reads. He's not folding QQ, KK, or AA ever here.Fold PF, Fold Flop, Just Fold Somewhere

[rwood 0]

wow krup way to back up your statements w/ sound reasoning.folding there is retardedly weak so im supposed to leave 50 in the middle when im less than a 2-1 dog against an overpair?and just because you cant fold an overpair doesnt mean i have no FE, if thats what you're implying by im not getting QQ-AA to fold therei dont even think i commented on how much more action we get if we are called and show down that hand. folding here is weakwhats more is we have a made hand/draw is it not possible that our oponent is actually behind???jesus how can you even contemplate a fold here. full ring it's a diff. story. but for christs sake it's 6 handed and i play laggy so im getting r/r'd here by less than AA-QQstrong bet obv=monster 5 of a kind. NO. he could make that same bet w/ 99-AA AK AQ even. weak weak weakwhat pisses me off is im getting no reasoning to back up these statements, is this what strat has become random one lined posts??

[DonkSlayer 1]

Obviously, you should stop wasting your time posting here and TP/MM.What's all this "weak" stuff? How the heck do you know where you are in this hand with a flop c/r?

[Royal_Tour 0]

What the phuck is this??Here i am thinking players on stars and FTP are playing tight solid poker.This is retarded man.No offence, i understand your preflop play, but u were re-raised preflop.then he fires out 20.this could be anything from QQ-AA, even AJ (but not as likely)honestly, Its Top pair with horrible kicker. folding here is not weak.folding here is the smart play. God, you invested 9BB's (i'm assuming this is .50/1.00) 9BBs and you're thinking of pushing here with a pair of jacks?

[Peak01 0]

Reason for folding J9o preflop. Hands you need to hit in order to play after the flop and % they hit:Two pair = 2.02%Open ended straight = 8.08%Trips = 1.34%Boat = .092%quads = .001%Total = 11.53% So here is your math on why 5 to 1 is not good enough and you should FOLD

[TB17 0]

eh I dunno about folding Preflop. He was getting more than 4-1. I call here and fold unless I hit a big draw or two pair+. But seriously are people really thinking about folding pre-flop? If so, that's BAD. Also to the poster above me, there;s something called implied odds that factor into the call. If you hit big, you most likely get their stack.On the flop though, he puts in a pretty big bet, you gotta fold.

[Peak01 0]

Also to the poster above me, there;s something called implied odds that factor into the call. If you hit big, you most likely get their stack.

I agree, read my first post. He just wanted reasoning for folding preflop so I was giving him the math.

[krup24 0]

wow krup way to back up your statements w/ sound reasoning.folding there is retardedly weak so im supposed to leave 50 in the middle when im less than a 2-1 dog against an overpair?and just because you cant fold an overpair doesnt mean i have no FE, if thats what you're implying by im not getting QQ-AA to fold therei dont even think i commented on how much more action we get if we are called and show down that hand. folding here is weakwhats more is we have a made hand/draw is it not possible that our oponent is actually behind???jesus how can you even contemplate a fold here. full ring it's a diff. story. but for christs sake it's 6 handed and i play laggy so im getting r/r'd here by less than AA-QQstrong bet obv=monster 5 of a kind. NO. he could make that same bet w/ 99-AA AK AQ even. weak weak weakwhat pisses me off is im getting no reasoning to back up these statements, is this what strat has become random one lined posts??

Honestly I just think the hand was played like trash. No need to be such a **** I was just stating that I hate the play. Your thinking on the hand is way to advanced for 99% of the 0.5/1 players. The reraise is a big hand at this level preflop. You make this raise in MP you got 2 to act behind + the blinds. Absolutely no reason to play this junk. Although I do tend to agree with calling after you are reraised in the hopes of flopping a straight up monster. You didn't, your behind here.If you wanna play lag fine but this is above and beyond IMO.

[rwood 0]

im wasnt trying to come accross as a ****i was just getting pissed by the simple fold preflop commentsfolding preflop here is ridic we are getting 5-1 on our call folding any 2 here is -ev IMO (anything reasonable, obv not like J3os..)well since everyone is putting him on AA-QQ lets crunch itagainst an overpair im about 36% to win the handwith his 20 dollar flop bet the pot is 48.5 so im getting laid about 2.5-1 on my callthe fact is that i MAY actually have the best hand here sometimes, people are perfectly capable of c-betting for 2.3rds the pot w/ AK here and other hands. plus like i said he could have reraised w/ lower pp's. furthermore, im making him have to call a pretty large bet (66 more) on a pretty damn scary board, i could easily have JJ 77 88 here + T9s im sure that an overpair is folded here a percentage of the timeso w/ what the pot is laying right now + my equity against his range (factoring in fold equity even if it's <10% pushing here is def not horrible and may even be +ev now maybe this is a tad overaggressivebut saying that it's HORRIBLE or saying it's a definite fold, is just out of line. plus i dont mind disaggreement at all thats what helps us all learn but at least pick your reasons dont just type up a few witty lines.

[Royal_Tour 0]

im wasnt trying to come accross as a ****i was just getting pissed by the simple fold preflop commentsfolding preflop here is ridic we are getting 5-1 on our call folding any 2 here is -ev IMO (anything reasonable, obv not like J3os..)well since everyone is putting him on AA-QQ lets crunch itagainst an overpair im about 36% to win the handwith his 20 dollar flop bet the pot is 48.5 so im getting laid about 2.5-1 on my callthe fact is that i MAY actually have the best hand here sometimes, people are perfectly capable of c-betting for 2.3rds the pot w/ AK here and other hands. plus like i said he could have reraised w/ lower pp's. furthermore, im making him have to call a pretty large bet (66 more) on a pretty damn scary board, i could easily have JJ 77 88 here + T9s im sure that an overpair is folded here a percentage of the timeso w/ what the pot is laying right now + my equity against his range (factoring in fold equity even if it's <10% pushing here is def not horrible and may even be +ev now maybe this is a tad overaggressivebut saying that it's HORRIBLE or saying it's a definite fold, is just out of line. plus i dont mind disaggreement at all thats what helps us all learn but at least pick your reasons dont just type up a few witty lines.

see, the thing is. You are making your judgement on what the pot is laying, and the slight percentage of the time that he fires out with absolutely nothing.its like you're trying to make kraft dinner from scratch. Its just way to silly for the obvious.Look at the clear cut situation instead of blurring it with stats.you're playing .50/1.00 and he RE-RAISED preflop. he also bet the close to the POT on the flop.you can say this looks like a c-bet with junk, but it also works as a c-bet with QQ or KK.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

"Fold preflop" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion..he wasn't asking about the preflop play--which I don't think is terrible at all--he was asking about the flop push. Push is standard. Even if he calls with an overpair we're only a 2-1 dog, and we've got enough to make him fold if he's a thinking player.

[rwood 0]

royal do you think everytime someone reraises at a 6 handed table then bets 2/3rds' of the pot that they have AA-QQ?? if you do you're most likely getting run over by a good player. i wasnt discounting anythingi was TAKING into account all the factors...nvmdrawing dead understands what i was pissed about i dont care if we disagree, lets just have a STRATEGIC discusion about why.

[Royal_Tour 0]

royal do you think everytime someone reraises at a 6 handed table then bets 2/3rds' of the pot that they have AA-QQ?? if you do you're most likely getting run over by a good player. i wasnt discounting anythingi was TAKING into account all the factors...nvmdrawing dead understands what i was pissed about i dont care if we disagree, lets just have a STRATEGIC discusion about why.

Nope.But i think in this situation, trying to make top pair of jacks with 9 kicker come off as more than it is because of pot odds is just silly.But then again, i'm also the type of player who likes to minimize his gamble situations

[alf13 0]

"Fold preflop" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion..he wasn't asking about the preflop play--which I don't think is terrible at all--he was asking about the flop push. Push is standard. Even if he calls with an overpair we're only a 2-1 dog, and we've got enough to make him fold if he's a thinking player.

This is absolutely right.The only thing I "might" have done differently is lead at the pot.His check raise was good, aggressive and then MATHEMATICALLY CORRECT.

[rwood 0]

i wasnt saying a bare pair of J's was for sure good but our other cards + aggression makes this play much closer IMO than initially thought

[Royal_Tour 0]

did this hand happen exactly like this?MP limps but then smooth calls 2 raises?were u just adding the extra 9 in there to help fatten the odds? (kidding, unless u did, then i'm not kidding)what was the results out of curiosity. this thread is gonna go on back and forth anyways