Evidence Of Life After Death

[WrongWay 0]

Can we not therefore rely on case study and qualitiative analysis to evaluate things like NDE's, or should we ignore the plethora of phenomenon until we can explain it on paper?

The problem with case study of NDE is that there is no way to remove the subjectiveness of the experience. If we want to measure the change to the person by their NDE... case study is fine. If we want to use NDE as proof of afterlife, then we must remove the subjective nature of the experience. And, all objective evidence is that NDE is NOT proof of afterlife.Here's another bit. The younger you are, the more likely you are to experience an NDE.... the same time short-term memory is at its best. Oh, the same time we're most likely to experience Deja Vu.... When our brains are still young and overactive.So, if NDE is proof of an afterlife, then it seems that the younger you are, the more likely it is that you are to get an afterlife.

[zzz 0]

since einstien did not believe in the metaphysical i need help with how anyone would think that quote applies to this situation. it doesn't.

She experienced seeing things with no brain function and eyes taped shut. Her reality of what was happening in the operating room was the same reality the doctors and nurses were experiencing.

[WrongWay 0]

It has been documented that what she saw in the operating room was real. Not a psychotic episode.

Not to my satisfaction, of the dozens and dozens of scientific studies that have been done on NDE's.Give it up. NDE is no more "real" than yogi-levitation or asteral projection.God does not exist. The soul does not exist. When you die, you no longer exist.

[zzz 0]

The problem with case study of NDE is that there is no way to remove the subjectiveness of the experience. If we want to measure the change to the person by their NDE... case study is fine. If we want to use NDE as proof of afterlife, then we must remove the subjective nature of the experience. And, all objective evidence is that NDE is NOT proof of afterlife.Here's another bit. The younger you are, the more likely you are to experience an NDE.... the same time short-term memory is at its best. Oh, the same time we're most likely to experience Deja Vu.... When our brains are still young and overactive.So, if NDE is proof of an afterlife, then it seems that the younger you are, the more likely it is that you are to get an afterlife.

lol. Do you have any evidence that children are more likely to experience a NDE than an adult? That would be a lot of kids having NDEs then. Wikipedia cites a Gallup poll where 8 million american adults reported having a NDE. Your posts are sprinkled with lies which makes your entire arguments suspect.

Not to my satisfaction, of the dozens and dozens of scientific studies that have been done on NDE's.Give it up. NDE is no more "real" than yogi-levitation or asteral projection.God does not exist. The soul does not exist. When you die, you no longer exist.

Millions of people report being concious while the body was unconcious. With all of this evidence you still insist on having a pessimistic view on what happens after you die. I guess you are not so smart after all.

[WrongWay 0]

Your posts are sprinkled with lies which makes your entire arguments suspect.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/200...l-ner121201.php"62 patients (18%) reported NDE, of whom 41 (12%) described a core (deep) experience. Occurrence of the experience was not associated with duration of cardiac arrest or unconsciousness, medication, or fear of death before cardiac arrest. NDEs were more common among people younger than 60 years; deeper NDE experiences were more common among women."http://www.nderf.org/drowning030203.htm"However, he did observe that age may play a part in the process, with younger patients more likely to have a NDE and subsequently report a core NDE. "lies my a$$.I know people REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want it to be true, but, sorry, NDE is just a psychotic episode brought on by oxygen deprivation and brain chemestry.... An experience we can simulate at will with the use of drugs.

[WrongWay 0]

Millions of people report being concious while the body was unconcious. With all of this evidence you still insist on having a pessimistic view on what happens after you die. I guess you are not so smart after all.

Millions of people believe that Allah is God, that Ghosts are real, that they were abducted by aliens, that they can levitate through meditation, that they've had past lives, that ESP is real...And, when put to true scientific research... poof no evidence that any of it is "real"... meaning more than just brain chemestry.So yeah, I avoid forming opinions on what "millions of people" insist.And I know you don't want to get into a "smart"s contest with me.

[zzz 0]

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/200...l-ner121201.php"62 patients (18%) reported NDE, of whom 41 (12%) described a core (deep) experience. Occurrence of the experience was not associated with duration of cardiac arrest or unconsciousness, medication, or fear of death before cardiac arrest. NDEs were more common among people younger than 60 years; deeper NDE experiences were more common among women."http://www.nderf.org/drowning030203.htm"However, he did observe that age may play a part in the process, with younger patients more likely to have a NDE and subsequently report a core NDE. "lies my a$$.I know people REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want it to be true, but, sorry, NDE is just a psychotic episode brought on by oxygen deprivation and brain chemestry.... An experience we can simulate at will with the use of drugs.

62 patients lol. Way to back up your statement...8 million ADULTS have reported NDEs in the US alone. No evidence that I am aware that shows millions of reported child NDEs. Where is the data showing millions of reported child NDEs. You're losing credibility...Still waiting...

[WrongWay 0]

62 patients lol. Way to back up your statement...8 million ADULTS have reported NDEs in the US alone. No evidence that I am aware that shows millions of reported child NDEs. Where is the data showing millions of reported child NDEs. You're losing credibility...Still waiting...

Show me a SCIENTIFIC study with more people then... I'm not talking a poll, like the one that shows 51% of Americans believe in ghosts and 73% believe in ESP and/or other paranormal experiences..... A scientific study! The only scientific studies I could find showed that the younger you were, the more likely you were to have an NDE.If you can find a larger one that does not show a link to age, then I'd be VERY interested in seeing it.As for credibility, you never had any to lose. Anicdotes are not evidence.

[zzz 0]

Millions of people believe that Allah is God, that Ghosts are real, that they were abducted by aliens, that they can levitate through meditation, that they've had past lives, that ESP is real...And, when put to true scientific research... poof no evidence that any of it is "real"... meaning more than just brain chemestry.So yeah, I avoid forming opinions on what "millions of people" insist.And I know you don't want to get into a "smart"s contest with me.

I can prove you're not to bright. You choose to disregard millions of people who are certain they were conscious without the help of their bodies. Granted its not the "scientific" evidence you are looking for, but you are assuming that they all are mistaking and it must be a hallucination. You say I can't prove consciousness exsits outside of the body, but there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence showing it does. Yet you still have an extremely pessimistic view on what happens after physical death. You can't prove their is no life after death, you believe it. This is in stark contrast to an optimistic viewpoint of we live forever. Optimists are happier people then pessimists. Therefore, you are not smart by choosing to be pessimistic about the unknown.

Show me a SCIENTIFIC study with more people then... I'm not talking a poll, like the one that shows 51% of Americans believe in ghosts and 73% believe in ESP and/or other paranormal experiences..... A scientific study! The only scientific studies I could find showed that the younger you were, the more likely you were to have an NDE.If you can find a larger one that does not show a link to age, then I'd be VERY interested in seeing it.As for credibility, you never had any to lose. Anicdotes are not evidence.

The scientific thing is making you close minded. From the moment we are born until the moment we die, personal experience is all we have to measure and understand the world about us. People who say "personal experience is not reliable" should try doing without it. We trust our experiences to feed us, shelter us, and keep us safe. To say that personal experiences can't be relied upon is not thinking clearly. In fact, those same scientists who say personal experiences are unreliable use their personal experiences every day of their lives and depend upon them in the same manner every other human does.

[WrongWay 0]

You choose to disregard millions of people who are certain they were conscious without the help of their bodies.

I choose to disregard it because of the mountain of evidence that indicates that it is pure brian chemestry.And I choose to disregard the millions of people that have seen a ghost, that have been abducted by aliens, that have asterially projected into past lives, that have had their future predicted by psychic friends network, that carry good luck charms, that have "lucky numbers" that they play the Lotto with, that stay home on Friday the 13th.....It goes on and on.....Millions of people experiencing something does not make it "real".

[zzz 0]

I choose to disregard it because of the mountain of evidence that indicates that it is pure brian chemestry.And I choose to disregard the millions of people that have seen a ghost, that have been abducted by aliens, that have asterially projected into past lives, that have had their future predicted by psychic friends network, that carry good luck charms, that have "lucky numbers" that they play the Lotto with, that stay home on Friday the 13th.....It goes on and on.....Millions of people experiencing something does not make it "real".

Why do you choose to be a pessimst about what happens after physical death? Only ignorant and stupid people are pessimists.

[WrongWay 0]

The scientific thing is making you close minded.

No... your belief in an nacient mythology makes you closed minded... unable to see the mouhntain of evidence that indicates that NDE is brain chemestry.

From the moment we are born until the moment we die, personal experience is all we have to measure and understand the world about us. People who say "personal experience is not reliable" should try doing without it.

Using "personal experience" we devlop all sorts of silly superstitions. It is naturally how the human brain works.... and it brought us beliefs as odd as evil eye and the lucky rabbit's foot, ESP and NDE, past lives, UFOs and God.This is why we use the scientific method to filter out false human expereince. Without the scientific method, we can be made to believe any old silly thing.... Humans are flawed. The scientific method is a crutch that can help us get beyond our flaw. Faith is taking the flaw and glorifying it.

Why do you choose to be a pessimst about what happens after physical death? Only ignorant and stupid people are pessimists.

Free your mind....Right now, your mind is locked in the prison of mytholgy and superstition which prevents you from seeing reality. You have an imaginary friend. You have hellusinations. You can't accept the evidence that is presented to you.The brain is a bio-electro-chemical computer that is the source of all consciousness. Drugs, oxygen deprivation, meditation and many other things can alter that consciousness. Brain damage can cause a wide variety of experiences, including religious experiences.NDE is simply the result of an altered conscious state.Anicdotes are not a reliable means of discovering information about reality.I am not the one that is ignorant. I am the one that has a free mind.

[zzz 0]

No... your belief in an nacient mythology makes you closed minded... unable to see the mouhntain of evidence that indicates that NDE is brain chemestry.Using "personal experience" we devlop all sorts of silly superstitions. It is naturally how the human brain works.... and it brought us beliefs as odd as evil eye and the lucky rabbit's foot, ESP and NDE, past lives, UFOs and God.This is why we use the scientific method to filter out false human expereince. Without the scientific method, we can be made to believe any old silly thing.... Humans are flawed. The scientific method is a crutch that can help us get beyond our flaw. Faith is taking the flaw and glorifying it.Free your mind....Right now, your mind is locked in the prison of mytholgy and superstition which prevents you from seeing reality. You have an imaginary friend. You have hellusinations. You can't accept the evidence that is presented to you.The brain is a bio-electro-chemical computer that is the source of all consciousness. Drugs, oxygen deprivation, meditation and many other things can alter that consciousness. Brain damage can cause a wide variety of experiences, including religious experiences.NDE is simply the result of an altered conscious state.Anicdotes are not a reliable means of discovering information about reality.I am not the one that is ignorant. I am the one that has a free mind.

Even a hardcore scientist can't prove that life ends after physical death. Therefore you are merely pessimistic about the unknown. Being a pessimist automatically makes you both ignorant and stupid. You are ignorant because you fail to realize that having pessimistic views makes you unhappy. Having optimistic views makes you happy. You are stupid for choosing unhappiness over happiness.

[WrongWay 0]

Even a hardcore scientist can't prove that life ends after physical death.

hmmmm....I choose to believe that THIS is hell. Having to put up with all the nut jobs that exist in this reality, constantly trying to push their mythology on me, constantly having them ignore the MOUNTAIN of evidence against their mythology.... this is hell.I choose to believe that when I die, I go to heaven... a place where NO ONE believes in heaven or hell or God or UFO abductions or ESP or ghosts or vampires or afterlife or fortune telling or good luck charms......A place where people don't pass along obvioudsly BS urban legends and use anicdotes in place of evidence. A place where all humans realize that they hold false beliefs, and CONSTANTLY test ALL of their beliefs against all available data so that they can cleanse their mind of these false beleifs....Oh, that would be heaven indeed.

[crowTrobot 2]

Therefore you are merely pessimistic about the unknown. Being a pessimist automatically makes you both ignorant and stupid. You are ignorant because you fail to realize that having pessimistic views makes you unhappy. Having optimistic views makes you happy. You are stupid for choosing unhappiness over happiness.

nice cult speak. since you are equating what is in fact simple objectivity with pessimism, you just said the equivelant of "being objective makes you ignorant, stupid, and leads to unhappiness, while the only way to happiness is brainwashing yourself to believe what you want to be true is probably true". mantra of any cult.enough of that. stick to the facts please.

[zzz 0]

The facts are nobody knows anything for sure. "As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.”-Socrates.Stick to the facts please? Saying you have no soul, you are not eternal, life ceases to exist after physical death, are merely pessimistic views on the unknown. When choosing pessimistic views over optimistic ones, you are also choosing stupidity and ignorance.

[crowTrobot 2]

Saying you have no soul, you are not eternal, life ceases to exist after physical death, are merely pessimistic views on the unknown.

no, they are objective views of what the evidence indicates.

[zzz 0]

no, they are objective views of what the evidence indicates.

I get it. According to you they are objective views. However, these views are part of the reason why you are so miserable. You are starting to sound like a hardcore Christian. "I know I can't prove it, but I won't change my pessimistic views because for me they are facts."

[crowTrobot 2]

I get it. According to you they are objective views. However, these views are part of the reason why you are so miserable.

cult speak alert.

You are starting to sound like a hardcore Christian. "I know I can't prove it, but I won't change my pessimistic views because for me they are facts."

views based on an overwhelming amount of physical evidence are not pessimistic or optimistic. they are simply objective.

[zzz 0]

cult speak alert.views based on an overwhelming amount of physical evidence are not pessimistic or optimistic. they are simply objective.

No evidence proving your arguement. I would be miserable too if I had your after death "knowledge".So in your mind in order to be happy you simply can't be objective. Considering yours and mine afterlife beliefs objectively, I am a happier person then you or WrongWay. You believe life will end without total proof. I believe I will be happy forever without total proof. Only an idiot would choose your belief.

[SilentSnow 1]

No evidence proving your arguement. I would be miserable too if I had your after death "knowledge".So in your mind in order to be happy you simply can't be objective. Considering yours and mine afterlife beliefs objectively, I am a happier person then you or WrongWay. You believe life will end without total proof. I believe I will be happy forever without total proof. Only an idiot would choose your belief.

That there is a 100 percent correlation between us and our physical brains is about as close to total proof as you are ever going to get. All of the contrary evidence you have presented is complete nonsense and wishful thinking. Truth is not based on a popularity poll. I would put the odds of us surviving the physical destruction of our brains at about a million to one. The ONLY way we survive after death is if the entire universe is fundamentally different than all reason and observation point to. But once you start rejecting the entire known universe your argument is on awfully shaky ground. Of course many religions and most people believe we wont die, but these beliefs have zero correlation with known facts. So at what point can you accept a lie in favor of more supposed "happiness"? What is the probability threshold of "total proof"? For you, it seems that you have such a high threshold that happy lies will ALWAYS beat out any unpleasant truths. So give me a number so we can discuss it. I personally think you must accept the truth if it rises much above the 70 to 90 percent range. Since us actually surviving our physical death is more like a million to one, rejecting this truth is unacceptable."So in your mind in order to be happy you simply can't be objective."This is one of the more ironic quotes I've seen lately, since this is in fact exactly what you yourself are doing.

[zzz 0]

That there is a 100 percent correlation between us and our physical brains is about as close to total proof as you are ever going to get. All of the contrary evidence you have presented is complete nonsense and wishful thinking. Truth is not based on a popularity poll. I would put the odds of us surviving the physical destruction of our brains at about a million to one. The ONLY way we survive after death is if the entire universe is fundamentally different than all reason and observation point to. But once you start rejecting the entire known universe your argument is on awfully shaky ground. Of course many religions and most people believe we wont die, but these beliefs have zero correlation with known facts. So at what point can you accept a lie in favor of more supposed "happiness"? What is the probability threshold of "total proof"? For you, it seems that you have such a high threshold that happy lies will ALWAYS beat out any unpleasant truths. So give me a number so we can discuss it. I personally think you must accept the truth if it rises much above the 70 to 90 percent range. Since us actually surviving our physical death is more like a million to one, rejecting this truth is unacceptable."So in your mind in order to be happy you simply can't be objective."This is one of the more ironic quotes I've seen lately, since this is in fact exactly what you yourself are doing.

"All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it." - Albert Einstein. It is 8 Million+ people's reality that they exist without their body because they have experienced it. You are simply disregarding 8,000,000 pieces of evidence in the U.S. alone. Even without this evidence it would be smarter to "illogically" believe in a more optimistic view on death because optimism is the what makes people happy.

[SilentSnow 1]

"All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it." - Albert Einstein. It is 8 Million+ people's reality that they exist without their body because they have experienced it. You are simply disregarding 8,000,000 pieces of evidence in the U.S. alone. Even without this evidence it would be smarter to "illogically" believe in a more optimistic view on death because optimism is the what makes people happy.

So you are a nihilist and believe that truth does not matter at all, but rather people should believe anything that makes them more happy, no matter how false.At least youre willing to admit it. Also, I should hardly need to point out that argument by popularity is a horrifically bad way to determine the truth if there are any other methods at all available.

[Flack_attack 0]

Even without this evidence it would be smarter to "illogically" believe in a more optimistic view on death because optimism is the what makes people happy.

Wrong.

[crowTrobot 2]

It is 8 Million+ people's reality that they exist without their body because they have experienced it. You are simply disregarding 8,000,000 pieces of evidence in the U.S. alone.

i see. so if what large amounts of people claim to have experienced is evidence to you, then i presume you simultaniously believe every major religion and cult in the world, as well as UFO's, bigfoot etc? there is no difference between those things and claims of NDE's.anyway i found a little info on this poll you keep harping on - it was taken in 1992 when NDE's were getting a lot of press and before a lot of the modern scienctific studies on the subject with negative results were conducted. the question apparently did not strictly specify actual death experiences where vitals ceased and restarted but allowed for close call (life-threatening situation etc) out-of-body experiences. i was unable to find the total number surveyed, but 5% responded positive. your website presumably is extrapolating that 5% into 8 million somehow, and spinning the number to represent 8 million actual death experiences, which it didn't.

Even without this evidence it would be smarter to "illogically" believe in a more optimistic view on death because optimism is the what makes people happy.

as long as you are illogically believing something why stop there? why not convince yourself there are a bunch of virgins waiting for you in the afterlife?...oh, that's been done? sorry.