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I Suck At Limit...


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Limit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $2/$410 playersConverterHERO DEALT AQ DIAMONDS IN BBPre-flop: (10 players)UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.Should I reraise preflop?Flop: 2 :D 5 :club: 3 :) (12.5SB, 6 players)Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds.Is this flop worth a call? Or should've I folded? I figure I'm way behind and if I don't improve I will fold the turn.Turn: 7 :D (8.25BB, 4 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, Button calls.Would anyone else raise here? I figured I would check the river if I miss.... but I have my doubts on whether or not it was a wise play.River: 2 :D(14.25BB, 3 players)Hero bets, MP3 raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, MP3 calls.Results:Final pot: 20.25BBShould I play this different? Should I fold on the flop? I seriously don't know if I played it right, even though it turned out ok for me. Thanks in advance.

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Limit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $2/$410 playersConverterPre-flop: (10 players)UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.Flop: 2♣ 5♦ 3♣ (12.5SB, 6 players)Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds.Turn: 7♦ (8.25BB, 4 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, Button calls.River: 2♦ (14.25BB, 3 players)Hero bets, MP3 raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, MP3 calls.Results:Final pot: 20.25BBShould I play this different? Should I fold on the flop? I seriously don't know if I played it right, even though it turned out ok for me. Thanks in advance.
What do you have?
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Sorry guys, apparently I suck at posting ON limit holdem as well... My original post is fixed.

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3-betting preflop is standard, as is calling the flop. On the turn, you want to just call since it's multiway, you're not going to fold the field, and you want as many people in as possible to pay off your nut flush if it hits. River's pretty standard.Edited to say 3-betting preflop. That's what I meant, not 3-betting the flop and calling it. You've got the right idea rwood.

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I dont see any scare cards you could get this villian off of. I doubt you'll be raising w/ a deuce. And the river 3 bet accomplishs what? (Keep in mind its LIMIT!) Tough to push ppl off hands. Especially at this low limit.gl 2 u! :club:

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I think you played it fine. I would 3-bet PF against an open raiser, or if I was on the button, but in this spot I think it's pretty close. With 3 limpers and a cold-caller, we're actually about even money against the combination of the PF raiser and cold-caller's range. We do have equity against the limpers, but we're OOP for the whole hand which offsets that a lot, imo. So overall, pretty close.Flop is an easy peel with as many as 10 outs, many of which are dirty, but we're getting an immediate 14.5 - 1.Turn is close between a call and a raise, but I think I just call. I prefer more people in multi-way, but I think the raise is fine too.River is standard. I throw up in my mouth a little bit if he caps.Just my two cents.

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Dear Limit Gurus,
As if.
I'm not100% crazy about 3-betting PF here... should I be? Why?
I would only accept the argument for 3 betting preflop if you do the same for any 19 or 20 that's suited (nor an A9)...including A10, KJ, K10, KQ.
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As if.I would only accept the argument for 3 betting preflop if you do the same for any 19 or 20 that's suited (nor an A9)...including A10, KJ, K10, KQ.
Ya, if we're doing it to pump our equity edge with a sooted broadway, then I'm cool.But if we think we are ahead of the UTG or EP raiser, or whatever it was, let me remind you that SSHE says fold AQ to an EP raise, but obv given the callers in between, and the fact we are sooted, then we can def cold call here, at least.
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Ya, if we're doing it to pump our equity edge with a sooted broadway, then I'm cool.But if we think we are ahead of the UTG or EP raiser, or whatever it was, let me remind you that SSHE says fold AQ to an EP raise, but obv given the callers in between, and the fact we are sooted, then we can def cold call here, at least.
SSHE actually says to cold-call with AQs. It's one of like 3 cold-calling hands. I'm with you on not being 100% crazy about 3-bettting. I think it's a close decision. We have an equity edge against the field, but we are also facing the 3 EP callers with 2 bets cold and we might end up with a couple of folds. I'd almost rather just play the hand out without raising. I don't think there's anything wrong with either play.
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Ring Game:- due to postion and early limpers call sooted.Ring Game:-due to positon and early limpers fold un-sooted (dont think this holding could really stand a re-raise).Short handed raise either sooted or not. Not sure whether call on flop or fold. depends on opponents. Play other streets the same.

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ok, so let's say that the flop was all black.... do I still call on the flop? With just my 2 overs and a 4 for a str8? Or was my backdoor diamond draw what made it wise to call? How many 'outs' do I typically need to call a flop bet when I basically 'miss' the flop? Thanks for all the responses.

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ok, so let's say that the flop was all black.... do I still call on the flop? With just my 2 overs and a 4 for a str8? Or was my backdoor diamond draw what made it wise to call? How many 'outs' do I typically need to call a flop bet when I basically 'miss' the flop? Thanks for all the responses.
It completely depends on pot size, obviously.In this case, getting 14.5-1, we need like 3 - 3.5 outs, on average, which can be accounted for with just our gutshot outs.Most of the time, in big pots, we will have enough to call with just overs, etc. Just try and figure out your outs, but be careful to discount some, etc.
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ok, so let's say that the flop was all black.... do I still call on the flop? With just my 2 overs and a 4 for a str8? Or was my backdoor diamond draw what made it wise to call? How many 'outs' do I typically need to call a flop bet when I basically 'miss' the flop? Thanks for all the responses.
IF (the if is key) all of your 6 overcard outs are "clean", you need 7 - 1 (6.7 - 1 for you math geeks) to peel correctly. Obviously you subtract outs as you feel they could end up hurting you, as the fourth flush card would in the original hand, and you add outs that can help you, like the gutshot cards.As Zach said, given that the pot was offering you 14.5 - 1 on the flop, it is correct to peel even if your 3 clean gutshot outs are your ONLY outs, unless somehow you knew with 100% certainty that someone had the made flush already.
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Ok. Here's another hand that happened last night.I was UTG+1 with A :D K :D I raise everyone else folds, the BB 3-bets, I call.Flop 2 :club: 4 :) 7 :) BB bets, I call.Turn: K :D BB bets, I raise, BB 3-bets, I call.River: 5 :) BB bets, I call.So if I'm understanding correctly.. There are are 3.25 BB's on the flop. So since I missed the flop should I fold to his bet?Should I raise the turn or be worried about his preflop aggression? Obviously after he 3-bet the turn, I was worried. So I would think the river call would be standard... but I have a feeling that I should've folded on the flop.

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Hi all, Read through the responses but I don't agree with a lot of them. Let me offer my own perspective and reasoning. Preflop: three-bet, not that close. You're simply pushing an equity edge. And your hand might be best. I really don't think flat-calling is correct, and I don't think it's close. In any game where six people go to the flop, your AQs here has monstrous equity and you really are giving up money by not three-betting.And what's this about "against an EP raiser"?? The guy is in the hijack. And there are three limpers before him.And on that note, I think you guys are misapplying the concept of position. Yeah our position sucks, but in games where six people go to the flop, I really think position is far less important than simply equity. Another way to look at it, you have awesome relative position. You can always checkraise the hijack preflop raiser, if you want to knock out opponents.But by far mostly it's for equity. Flop: Easy peel.I don't think I read anyone saying fold the flop, but I might have. Just in case, no you don't fold the flop. Two overs + backdoor flush draw (I would ignore your wheel gutshot, that will almost never get you the whole pot and will often not get you anything if someone has a 6x) getting 14-to-1 on a single bet, and you'd be getting something like 20-to-1 on a single bet if you three-bet preflop.And btw, I would never continuation bet this flop after three-betting. It really serves no purpose imo. I've started cbetting less in these spots (even though I intend to call one bet) and I'm really happy with that change. If someone disagrees, it's cool, but please tell me what the purpose of a cbet is. I know big pot, improve winning chances, but please offer realistic/practical examples of how much you're improving your winning chances (benefit) vs how much it'll cost you (cost).But if I had three-bet and I had a read that MP3 or Button was particularly LAGish, I think a check-raise is by far the best play.But I'm going too far -- the reason for checking is to see the action behind when you are almost never best on this flop. Your overcard outs are a little dirty because the Ac and Qc could fill a flush or give someone a flush draw. So if you check and it's two cold when it gets back to you, you should strongly consider folding, and without a read it's a fold, but some exceptions might be if you know MP3 is a LAG or can make the raise with AKo here, and the bettor is loose and MP3 raises, for example. etc.So the check is good, and the call of a single bet is good.Turn: check is good, but you should raise when MP3 bets again.MP3 is the pfr and while he could have a hand, he doesn't have to. Your job would also be easier if you had three-bet pf since you could have seen if he capped. But more importantly, you really SHOULD be concerned about cleaning up outs now, the pot is relatively big, and esp if you had three-bet preflop.If you had just one overcard out + your flush draw, I think it becomes closer. With no overcards, it's definitely NOT a raise, but with two, I think it leans pretty heavily to raising.Also the reason I mention MP3 being the pfr is because this gives you a little bit more room. He could easily just be cbetting meaninglessly, and isolating against him might be awesome (button's cold-call/call/call means nothing).(River is obvious, but the non-obvious part is that I wouldn't go for the checkraise, I would just bet out. And yes, when MP3 raises the board-pairing 2, that means way less because he raised pf, so easy three-bet.)Hope this helps,Aseem

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Ok. Here's another hand that happened last night.I was UTG+1 with A :D K :D I raise everyone else folds, the BB 3-bets, I call.Flop 2 :club: 4 :) 7 :) BB bets, I call.Turn: K :D BB bets, I raise, BB 3-bets, I call.River: 5 :) BB bets, I call.So if I'm understanding correctly.. There are are 3.25 BB's on the flop. So since I missed the flop should I fold to his bet?Should I raise the turn or be worried about his preflop aggression? Obviously after he 3-bet the turn, I was worried. So I would think the river call would be standard... but I have a feeling that I should've folded on the flop.
I cap AKs in position. The hand plays differently after that.As played, after BB bets the flop, there are 7.5 small bets in the pot. You're getting 7.5 - 1 which makes it a peel unless you have a VERY strong read on BB which tells you he would only 3-bet PF with a hand to which you're drawing slim.Turn and river look standard to me.
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