jimmythang68 0 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $15/$309 playersPre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with ah ad UTG calls, 4 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero raises to $120, UTG folds, CO calls, SB calls.Flop: kd 4h 2d ($390, 3 players)SB checks, Hero bets $225, CO calls, SB folds.Turn: ts ($840, 2 players)Hero bets $500, CO calls.River: 8c ($1840, 2 players)Hero is all-in $655, CO calls all-in $595.Uncalled bets: $60 returned to Hero. Results:Final pot: $3030he had K8Ok I know not to post the results but do you push the turn? How would you play it differently? I know its good not to play big pots with one pair but i felt I was good til he showed his cards. When he called the flop I thought flush draw, then after teh turn I thought AK, KQ. I didn't feel he had anything better than one pair. I know its only the 2nd hand so I shouldn't have a read. I just want to know my mistakes this hand. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
IQCrash 1 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 A - Don't post results.B - That's from a ring game and this is tournament strategy... I can't really comment too much as I'm in an MTT mindset right now, but why aren't you betting more on the turn? Do you really want him to catch his two pair? I'd say shove the turn - but then again, like I said, I'm in an MTT mindset right now.C - BBFIDTS Link to post Share on other sites
jimmythang68 0 Posted October 28, 2006 Author Share Posted October 28, 2006 A - Don't post results.B - That's from a ring game and this is tournament strategy... I can't really comment too much as I'm in an MTT mindset right now, but why aren't you betting more on the turn? Do you really want him to catch his two pair? I'd say shove the turn - but then again, like I said, I'm in an MTT mindset right now.C - BBFIDTS1 I know not to post results. I am just wanting to know how would you play it on each street? 2. I just noticed that it said RING Game but its from the 12k on Full Tilt that started 35 minutes ago (it was the second hand). 3. You really think that I'd be asking this dumb of a question if I were playing 15/30... Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRichey 1 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 No matter your intentions, DO NOT POST RESULTS.That being said, you need to raise more pf. I would say 180-200. I would bet 1/2 the pot on the flop, and again if we are HU on the turn. I'd probably push the river if he has called down this far. Really, we are value betting this the whole way. Please, edit your post. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results ********************************** 1 I know not to post results. I am just wanting to know how would you play it on each street?how do you make it thru life with logic like that?simple things like ordering food must drive you nuts."I know it's noon, and you all only serve breakfast until 10:30AM; but I just wanted to have an EggMcmuffin for lunch" Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRichey 1 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 "I know it's noon, and you all only serve breakfast until 10:30AM; but I just wanted to have an EggMcmuffin for lunch"Thanks ***, now I have coffee all over my laptop. Link to post Share on other sites
_Great_Dane_ 0 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results don't post results **********************************The extra time that you spent to modify the text sizes - was that well spent?Do you hear this echoing in your head and that's why you do this?As far as the way that the hand played out, early in a tournament, I'd either recommend all in preflop for a quick double up or no one calls. Or be very very careful if you do get a caller. Someone could have flopped two pair or a set, and if you push, you're done. After a call on the flop, with just top pair, you might want to consider checking it down and not getting greedy. The average winning hand in NLHE is two pair.I played in a live tournament about a month ago, and I got AA in the first level with big blind at $50 with $3000 in chips to start. I raised preflop to $175, got three callers. Flop was J 10 5, two spades and I was thinking, "great; someone's flopped two pair, someone else flopped a straight draw, someone else flopped a flush draw." I bet $500. No one called. And I showed the table my AA and I thanked them for letting me win a hand with it. Link to post Share on other sites
IQCrash 1 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 As far as the way that the hand played out, early in a tournament, I'd either recommend all in preflop for a quick double up or no one calls. Or be very very careful if you do get a caller.Smash, is that you? Link to post Share on other sites
holyfield 0 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 dont push turn, you got sucked out on, it happens.........your problem isnt that you didnt force him out when you should have, if he was sane he would have been out long ago. over the long run this is like +++++++EV this just happened to be one of the times he hit.now i also must say you said you felt good playing a pair so hard......seeing as this is second hand you couldnt possibly have felt this way based on solid poker logic(guy playing like this is easy to pick apart if you wait to get reads and play smart but instead you stack him).........if you dont push so hard you can actually put the brakes on, as is you wholly committed yourself to the hand regardless of how things went/information he gave which is bad.im not gonna flame you for posting results, but im gonna flame you for playing very very poorly, i hope you learned from this. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 I like how this was played all through. His most likely hand was a king, and you bet good amounts all the way through. You were just unfortunate that he hit a 5 outer. your problem isnt that you didnt force him out when you should haveHe should never force the other guy out. Are you saying that if the other guy turns his hand over you would bet enough to get the guy to fold? You get far more equity by value betting. Link to post Share on other sites
holyfield 0 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 read my sentence simo, im saying the same thing as you. bet so that if they call its a -EV call, then let them do what they want. Link to post Share on other sites
WhatArunAA 0 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $15/$309 playersPre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with ah ad UTG calls, 4 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero raises to $120, UTG folds, CO calls, SB calls.Flop: kd 4h 2d ($390, 3 players)SB checks, Hero bets $225, CO calls, SB folds.Turn: ts ($840, 2 players)Hero bets $500, CO calls.River: 8c ($1840, 2 players)Hero is all-in $655, CO calls all-in $595.Uncalled bets: $60 returned to Hero. Results:Final pot: $3030he had K8Ok I know not to post the results but do you push the turn? How would you play it differently? I know its good not to play big pots with one pair but i felt I was good til he showed his cards. When he called the flop I thought flush draw, then after teh turn I thought AK, KQ. I didn't feel he had anything better than one pair. I know its only the 2nd hand so I shouldn't have a read. I just want to know my mistakes this hand. Thanks.this is how i play it... after 2 limpers this early in the tourney, I def make it 5 times bb.. so I raise to 150.. after the flop i'm betting 3 quarters of the pot.. after the turn i'm probably betting close to the pot. because the 10 is a scary card in the sense that if villain is on Diamond draw with a 10, then he just picked up a ton more outs. . and the river.. if he pushes.. i'm def calling. There is too many donkeys in these tournies to make laying down AA +EV... I just think its a bad beat.. dont focus on results.. just look at how you played the hand, if you played it correctly.. the results will take care of themselves longterm. Link to post Share on other sites
holyfield 0 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 this is how i play it... after 2 limpers this early in the tourney, I def make it 5 times bb.. so I raise to 150.. after the flop i'm betting 3 quarters of the pot.. after the turn i'm probably betting close to the pot. because the 10 is a scary card in the sense that if villain is on Diamond draw with a 10, then he just picked up a ton more outs. . and the river.. if he pushes.. i'm def calling. There is too many donkeys in these tournies to make laying down AA +EV... I just think its a bad beat.. dont focus on results.. just look at how you played the hand, if you played it correctly.. the results will take care of themselves longterm.this isnt a tourney but if you *take this line* with AA like this early in a tourney im sorry but you are the donkey......thinking you played a hand like this correctly on the second hand of a tournament is ALSO results based thinking......yeh he hit an 8 on the river and sucked out, but the play was still wrong and you were lucky he happened to be terrible and behind. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 holyfield,you are embarrassing yourself.it's as if you are purposely givng bad advice to see if anyone will notice.well, I noticed.nice work Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRichey 1 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 this isnt a tourney but if you call down with AA like this early in a tourney im sorry but you are the donkey......This is a from a tournament. Link to post Share on other sites
holyfield 0 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 i was just going off what crash said about it not being a tourney didnt really scrutinize much, the rest stands.actuary im beggining to think there is no hope for you Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Holyfield - how do you think it should be played? You agree that you get most value from this hand by value betting down, but you then say:your problem isnt that you didnt force him out when you should haveWhich is it? Do you value bet or do you try to force him out?the play was still wrong and you were lucky he happened to be terrible and behind.Now you imply that you think we would normally be behind, so both value betting AND trying to force him out would be wrong.I think Actuary is onto something here. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 actuary im beggining to think there is no hope for mefyp. Link to post Share on other sites
holyfield 0 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 the OP was worried that he lost the hand because he didnt shove and force the guy out and all my comment meant is, you tried to get him out, he made a call he didnt have the odds to make and got lucky so stop looking at it like that was the mistake when he just got lucky. i felt the bet amounts were too high but that nonwithstanding, him calling that high a bet should be an alarm bell, without reads you MUST respect the alarm bells.im betting to protect my hand and figure out where im at, possibly induce a fold....uber skill people like me can do all that in one bet real poker players dont risk all their money on the second hand of a tournament on top pair, including aces(overpair).....period........you havent been at the table long enough to get reads(kept firing hard so he couldnt even get a read on opponent in any case....he just kept calling) which is one of the biggest advantages of your skill. you dont know if the guy is terrible and can play garbage and hit 2 pair here, you dont know betting patterns, if hed call that raise with PP, how much he will chase for and what he respects/doesnt.......you are grasping around in the dark but yet without all this information he played the hand with pedal to the floor with just a pair. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Holyfield,How much are you betting on ever street?Be specificAnd tell us if you call a river raisehow much?be specific.(and in 1500 chip tourneys online, you hardly have time to play AA cautiously in small buy in tourney. You're much better off over betting them against most donks. Lol, reads and betting patterns in an online STT. That's so freakin hilarious in an STT. Please. lol.. good one..lol lol lol... )answer the question above. Link to post Share on other sites
holyfield 0 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 actuary we both know that i dont know what a 12k FTP is exactly, i assumed it was not just 1 table event thats why the conversation is going this way. i dont see why you guys even bother posting tourney questions with such structures and terrible competition, just gamble away and value bet. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 actuary we both know that i dont know what a 12k FTP is exactlyOh, I'm wrong.I thought it was a Single Table tourney.See I can admit I"m wrong.ok... reads in a online MTT.... lol,....unless we happen to have notes from several hundred hands..lol...betting patterns...lolok.But seriously, Holyfield::What would you bet?Let me tell you why no one takes you seriously:You can't give concrete answers.All you ever do is say someone played it wrong (usually overplayed it), or you say "I agree". But you don't give specifics on how you play when you disagree.Furthermore you never post your own hands. You could be a big joke and imposter. Without more detail in your posts, you're trolling.Now, please say what you bet on each street.dooooo it! Link to post Share on other sites
holyfield 0 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 i dont give specifics on what i do(bet amts) because the game is so situational and sooo many factors to consider, i just try to give the thought process....its hard to understand until you have yourself thinking in the right way and the light bulb turns on.i only came here because i was curious about why online players were so bad and wanted to try to help. i understand fully now so i guess ill leave you guys to it. ive overstayed my welcome and actuary keep with the STT and SnG where skill is less of a factory palTIFWIWlast post Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 holyfield,are you seriously not aware that the overall level of live play is FAR WORSE than the play online? Link to post Share on other sites
IQCrash 1 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 last post Link to post Share on other sites
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