Bizzle 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I love the bet for what it's worth. The 6 on the turn is a great card to make that bet with; if DN has a 6, oh well, but if DN is calling a bet on a q66 flop (no draws), then the 6 on the turn should make him feel better about his hand, not worse. The guy probably put DN on the case Q, or a pair under the Q (JJ for instance), and figured an overbet would be the best way to sell a bluff.You really think DN calls a 68 BB preflop limp-raise with JJ or a hand with a Queen?I still would be shocked if DN had anything other than AA or KK in this spot.Oh, and Tmay is at the FT of a DS right now, but no chatting = crappy. Link to post Share on other sites
Morphii 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 The player in seat one limps from under the gun, Melissa Hayden raises to $300 and Daniel Negreanu calls. Seat one then reraises to $1,700, Hayden mucks and Negreanu calls. The flop comes Q-6-6, seat one bets $2,500 and Negreanu calls. The turn is the 6x, seat one fires $10,000 and Negreanu pushes all in. Seat one calls and shows queens full of sixes while Negreanu flips over pocket kings. The river is a brick and Negreanu is eliminated from the tournament.Seat one reraise $1700 pre flop. At least QQ, AK, AA maybe.Bets $2500 on Q 6 6, DN is beat if he has QQ, AA. DN called? Why didn't he reraise here?At least try to find out if seat one has a Q.When the turn is 6, seat one bets $10,000. What can he have to bet $10,000?6 no, AK? no JJ? no, KK ( chop), QQ (DN is beat), AA (DN is beat). He pushes all in? I don't know how much he has left but if his all in is over $50,000. Then that was a dumb play.Slow played before the flop, mistake one.Slow played on the flop, mistake two.All in on the turn, mistake three, He deserved to be knocked out.Then again I don't know how seat one's been playing or what DN's table image is but it is a bad play to say the least. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 You really think DN calls a 68 BB preflop limp-raise with JJ or a hand with a Queen?I still would be shocked if DN had anything other than AA or KK in this spot.I wouldn't think so, but based on the image most people have of DN's play, I don't think some random guy would be too surprised if DN called that raise with a lower PP or AQ. People see DN playing all sorts of hands, and fail to realize the situation. Link to post Share on other sites
stealfromblind 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 You are completely correct here. Although I think a turn bet of 6k would be the route I would go, if I had an established maniac image I'd probably bet larger (since that will never happen, I won't have to worry about that ). Granted, as I said in an earlier post, DN claiming that the other guy "couldn't know what he had" was pretty ludicrous. DN basically turned his hand faceup when he called a 68 BB raise...if you think he is doing this with 75o or even AKo, you're pretty nuts.so lets assume that DN's analysis of the guy is spot on and that he is a maniac/lag player. i really think the UTG's reraise pf was intended to look like a squeeze play and he was trying to get a defensive call from hayden. i seriously doubt that UTG ever expected DN to call this raise and had the flop not setted him i think he would've at the most cbet the flop and then definately put the brakes on. in DN's defense i can definately see a call against a maniac/LAG player like this especially after the huge reraise, i mean why not let the guy cbet the flop if he has a hand like ak/qq/jj/tt? why shut him out preflop? i think from the UTG's perspective daniels smooth call on the flop ruled out 88-JJ(i know a lot of you will disgree with this, but i think you should raise or fold with that range on this kind of flop) and made this a fairy tale flop for his hand against AA/KK. as pmjackson stated this wasn't really that severe of an overbet and its something more typically seen in cash games as a bait move. its not that i agree with DN's push on the turn, i just think that the UTG player had a lot working for him, especially after the size of his pf raise. -steal Link to post Share on other sites
kennyg1966 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 ALWAYS FOLD POCKET KINGS PRE FLOPi don't care who you are pro(DN) donk(most of us) all the money is going in the middle no matter what, he got unlucky.Get em next time! Link to post Share on other sites
Bizzle 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 i just think that the UTG player had a lot working for him, especially after the size of his pf raise. -stealI like your analysis. I just feel like DN got caught in one of those "I hope he has" spots (I do this all the time myself) and didn't really notice the massive amount of BBs that were being pushed into the pot. Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 ALWAYS FOLD POCKET KINGS PRE FLOPi don't care who you are pro(DN) donk(most of us) all the money is going in the middle no matter what, he got unlucky.Get em next time! Um it wasn't preflop at all, and no all the money isnt going in no matter what.I don't want to come off as trying to say it was really bad because I'm not saying that at all. I'm trying to dissect a really big hand and I think that folding somewhere is the best, and I think so does Daniel.\The guy played his hand pretty well as he disguised his hand by betting so much which I think was pretty sick but I think Danny couldve waited for better spots.This isnt an online tournament where you're committed to monster hands in the 1st level, its a 10k event. He DID get unlucky but it doesnt mean he had to pay it off "no amtter what" Link to post Share on other sites
Dratj 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 ALWAYS FOLD POCKET KINGS PRE FLOPi don't care who you are pro(DN) donk(most of us) all the money is going in the middle no matter what, he got unlucky.Get em next time! No, it's a very deepstack tourney. Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 So to sum it up save your comments for someone who gives a sht about who you think you are or the fact that you cashed in the latest 10 cent poker star MTT. Save that sht for the bum at the bus statiion that might value your opinion. .... i'll give you 10 cents to buy a clue, sir. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I have 2 questions after finally catching up on this thread:Is it bad to split kings in blackjack? I have to remember to never play or someone at the table will probably 'Bizzle' me.And, where does Looshle's dad play? I want in...As someone else previously said, one of the better hand discussion threads I've seen in a while. Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I wouldn't think so, but based on the image most people have of DN's play, I don't think some random guy would be too surprised if DN called that raise with a lower PP or AQ. People see DN playing all sorts of hands, and fail to realize the situation.I agree. You put anyone who has been shown on WPT or WSOP as a little bit LAG, and these amateurs start thinking, he can call with any 2 cards. Link to post Share on other sites
CBass1724 1 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Daniel,You need an Ovechkin jersey ASAP.Your Friend,CBass Link to post Share on other sites
Morpheus 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I think it was a good play regardless even if you lose in the long run it will be profitable.This is a funny sentence....it sounds like you're saying: "Even if you lose in the long run......it will be profitable". Of course, this interpretation makes no sense.I guess what you meant was: "Even if you lose [the hand], it will be profitable in the long run" Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I wasn't really "getting cute." The blinds were only 25-25 and I didn't think going all in pre-flop was such a good idea. I was planning on losing the smallest pot possible, but my opponent made a very large turn bet that put me in a position where it was all or nothing. He over bet the turn, betting 10,000. I was surprised that he did that with Q-Q. He is a very aggressive, almost wild type of player so I thought he may be trying to represent AA or QQ but actually had a hand like AK. If I re-raised him before the flop, I don't think he was getting away from the hand anyway. I don't think many players can get away from KK at this point.With those bets, I immediately put the villian on AQ. Link to post Share on other sites
alf13 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 PM Jackson,that sig of yours is in really really really bad spanish...did anybody actually say that? I don't think many players can get away from KK at this point.With those bets, I immediately put the villian on AQ.orly?not QQ or AA?so you know people that put in 800 BB's into the pot in the first level with the 567th nuts? Link to post Share on other sites
Bizzle 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I don't think many players can get away from KK at this point.With those bets, I immediately put the villian on AQ.I just flipped through the thread. This is literally the very first time AQ has been mentioned as a possibility for either hand. Link to post Share on other sites
alf13 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I just flipped through the thread. This is literally the very first time AQ has been mentioned as a possibility for either hand.I mentioned it first.In my thesis of "wishful thinking", it was the only hand that the villain could have realistically had (granting that he is a maniac goofball donk type) that Daniel could beat. Link to post Share on other sites
The Czar 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I mentioned it first.In my thesis of "wishful thinking", it was the only hand that the villain could have realistically had (granting that he is a maniac goofball donk type) that Daniel could beat.I would have to agree that AQ is very much wishful thinking. Being a maniac is one thing, but if he's willing to risk that much with AQ, I have to figure DN can exploit him later in a better spot. Link to post Share on other sites
Zeatrix 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 When I read CardPlayers summary of the hand I thought it didn't sound like the way Daniel usually plays. It will be interesting to read a blog or article about this hand to see what he was thinking. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I think Bizzle hit the nail on the head with DN playing his hand face up. How does it not look like AA or KK? Who smooth calls a pf raise, then smooth calls a gigantic limp reraise without a ery premium hand?Also, there were comments referring to amateurs thinking DN might be crazy from WPT shows, I don't know if that was in reference to the guy in this hand against DN, but I think DN underrated the player, he is at the FT of the other event as well. Must have something alright going for him.I also think that everyone who has thought about the hand and understands how deepstacked the tourney is realizes that a fold is the correct course of action.That's all. Link to post Share on other sites
PMJackson21 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 PM Jackson,that sig of yours is in really really really bad spanish...did anybody actually say that?orly?LOL, JC sent me a link to a spanish poker forum where they were talking about him. Some hand where JC has JJ vs QQ vs KK and spiked a jack on the river, and I think the guy who posted had the QQ, and was defending why JC's bet pf didn't mean AA/KK/AK etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Tigerlite 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 The player in seat one limps from under the gun, Melissa Hayden raises to $300 and Daniel Negreanu calls. Seat one then reraises to $1,700, Hayden mucks and Negreanu calls. The flop comes Q-6-6, seat one bets $2,500 and Negreanu calls. The turn is the 6x, seat one fires $10,000 and Negreanu pushes all in. Seat one calls and shows queens full of sixes while Negreanu flips over pocket kings. The river is a brick and Negreanu is eliminated from the tournament.Seat one reraise $1700 pre flop. At least QQ, AK, AA maybe.Bets $2500 on Q 6 6, DN is beat if he has QQ, AA. DN called? Why didn't he reraise here?At least try to find out if seat one has a Q.When the turn is 6, seat one bets $10,000. What can he have to bet $10,000?6 no, AK? no JJ? no, KK ( chop), QQ (DN is beat), AA (DN is beat). He pushes all in? I don't know how much he has left but if his all in is over $50,000. Then that was a dumb play.Slow played before the flop, mistake one.Slow played on the flop, mistake two.All in on the turn, mistake three, He deserved to be knocked out.Then again I don't know how seat one's been playing or what DN's table image is but it is a bad play to say the least.Very good analysis. DN must have thought the guy had A, Q, similar hand or a smaller pair to call off all of his chips here. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 LOL, JC sent me a link to a spanish poker forum where they were talking about him. Some hand where JC has JJ vs QQ vs KK and spiked a jack on the river, and I think the guy who posted had the QQ, and was defending why JC's bet pf didn't mean AA/KK/AK etc.wait wait wait.. let me get this straight.. spanish people are playing poker now? Link to post Share on other sites
The Czar 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 wait wait wait.. let me get this straight.. spanish people are playing poker now?And they have computers?I took 4 years of Spanish and have no idea what that says. That says a lot about my level of intelligence. Too much cerveza. Link to post Share on other sites
kennyg1966 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Um it wasn't preflop at all, and no all the money isnt going in no matter what.I don't want to come off as trying to say it was really bad because I'm not saying that at all. I'm trying to dissect a really big hand and I think that folding somewhere is the best, and I think so does Daniel.\The guy played his hand pretty well as he disguised his hand by betting so much which I think was pretty sick but I think Danny couldve waited for better spots.This isnt an online tournament where you're committed to monster hands in the 1st level, its a 10k event. He DID get unlucky but it doesnt mean he had to pay it off "no amtter what"the first part was a joke!!!and i do think all the money was going to get into the middle!! the first part was a joke!!!and i do think all the money was going to get into the middle!! This isnt an online tournament where you're committed to monster hands in the 1st level, its a 10k event. He DID get unlucky but it doesnt mean he had to pay it off "no amtter what"what the hell does amtter mean...j/k Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now