Big Pot, Live Game. Thoughts?

[Ten8Off 0]

Ok, here's a scenario from a live game I played last night. Just curious as to what other people would have done in this situation:Stack sizesMe: $350Solid Player: $700Crappy Player: $150Hand:I'm in SB with , there's a middle position raise to 30 (6x BB), 3 callers before me so I call, one more caller behind me so 5 total in the pot. Flop: Solid Player leads out and bets $50 into the raiser. We've seen Solid Player do this twice this session and both times had a set on a ragged flop. Crappy Player moves all in for his remaining $120, somewhat quickly. Action is on me now, one more player behind me to act... What would you do? Please refrain from using any programs, just use your brain. Thanks.

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

Action is on me now, one more player behind me to act... What would you do?

Raise all in and, hopefully, isolate the first all in player (hoping that he's got top pair, top kicker, and you're better than a coin flip to win).

[EurekaKid 0]

Would these players play a bigger flush draw so brashly? If so, probably fold. Is the game incredibly juicey? If so, fold if you feel you don't need to play such a big pot to come out a big winner for the session. Otherwise, I interpret you as about a 40% chance to win the hand if solid player calls and a coin flip against crappy player if you get the solid player to fold. Even if solid player does have a set, if its bottom set he may be able to lay it down if you move all-in. The worst shape you can possibly be in is if you are against a set and a higher flush draw, in which case you are still about 1 in 4 I think.

[NocturnalRob 0]

if you bought money to rebuy, i push. if not, I fold. Even with the open-ended straight flush. wait for a better situation. if you push and solid player calls the extra $270, you can pretty much guarantee that someone has a better flush. you're drawing to 8 outs for (6 for the straight and 2 for the straight flush). Then again, solid player bet out $50 into a $150 pot. based on your read of him, what does that tell you? does he slowplay his big hands and juice the pot, knowing that crappy player will pay him off with top pair? comes downs to reads. if you think solid player will fold to your push, then push away. i think i contradicted myself about 4 times in this post...nice.

[Acid_Knight 2]

You have 8 clean outs. 6 make you the straight and 2 make a straight flush. Folding is ridiculous.Just push your stack in. You might have as many as 15 outs, depending on your opponent's holdings, but you're guaranteed to have 8. This puts incredible pressure on the original raiser and the guy who led into the field.Pushing seems to be the only play to make.

[aucu 3]

I like the push, if you just call the other player might be looking for a higher flush. Even if he calls you got enough outs.

[benhoug 0]

Raise all in and, hopefully, isolate the first all in player (hoping that he's got top pair, top kicker, and you're better than a coin flip to win).

I don't think I could ever fold an OESFD (unlike the 3rd place finisher at the main event). In this spot I push close to every time. Did I mention I'm a sucker for straightflush draws???

[NocturnalRob 0]

I don't think I could ever fold an OESFD (unlike the 3rd place finisher at the main event). In this spot I push close to every time. Did I mention I'm a sucker for straightflush draws???

wasicka finished second

[Acid_Knight 2]

I don't think I could ever fold an OESFD (unlike the 3rd place finisher at the main event). In this spot I push close to every time. Did I mention I'm a sucker for straightflush draws???

In a cash game, unless you know you're against a made hand and a flush draw, it's always fine to push or call off your stack here. Heads up, you do it every time.In a tourney, it's much different. Especially when folding can mean that you make an extra 2 million dollars. It's a dangerous situation in a tourney to coldcall your whole stack on a draw, no matter how big, when 2 people have already shown interest in the pot.You can't rebuy in a tourney. This is a cash game. Stick your chips in the pot.

[Ten8Off 0]

Thanks for the replies! You all said basically what I did. I reraised Crappy Player's all-in with my all-in, and almost instantly Solid Player calls. Solid Player shows Crappy Player shows: In my head: "Woohoo no flush draws! 15 outs!" Which was actually incorrect since the set took a couple of my outs.The turn: blankThe river: Suhweet!Reason I posted this was because for the next 45 minutes I kept gettin sh!t from this other player that wasn't even in the hand!I knew I made the right decision, but I couldn't figure out what my percentage was at the flop. I wish I had know at the time that it was almost 43% just so I can tell the guy to get off my back. Gettin almost 3 to 1 on an OESFD is great, especially when it hits.

[DrZebra 0]

Please refrain from using any programs, just use your brain.

haha

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

I don't think I could ever fold an OESFD (unlike the 3rd place finisher at the main event). In this spot I push close to every time. Did I mention I'm a sucker for straightflush draws???

You did when you said, "I don't think I could ever fold an OESFD."I had an OESFD a couple of weeks ago. After a bet, raise, reraise on the flop, I pushed $400 more into a $175 pot and a smart player folded top pair top kicker. I was happy if he folded or called, although I obviously wouldn't have liked a call if I missed my 15 outs with two cards to come.

In a tourney, it's much different. Especially when folding can mean that you make an extra 2 million dollars. It's a dangerous situation in a tourney to coldcall your whole stack on a draw, no matter how big, when 2 people have already shown interest in the pot.

There's a big difference between playing not to lose and playing to win. Wasicka could not have gotten to the final three without taking chances. If I had been Wasicka, I would have pushed.

[No_Neck 0]

You did when you said, "I don't think I could ever fold an OESFD."I had an OESFD a couple of weeks ago. After a bet, raise, reraise on the flop, I pushed $400 more into a $175 pot and a smart player folded top pair top kicker. I was happy if he folded or called, although I obviously wouldn't have liked a call if I missed my 15 outs with two cards to come.There's a big difference between playing not to lose and playing to win. Wasicka could not have gotten to the final three without taking chances. If I had been Wasicka, I would have pushed.

2 million is a lot of cheese, thats all I am going to say.

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

2 million is a lot of cheese, thats all I am going to say.

True. But I would have also considered that, if it were a three way all in, and Gold won the hand, Wasicka would have gotten second anyway based on the higher chip count at the beginning of the hand. There would have been too many positive factors for me to fold.

[CoranMoran 0]

if you bought money to rebuy, i push. if not, I fold

Bad reasoning.This decision should have nothing to do with whether or not you are capable of bringing more chips to the table for your next hand.--cm

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

Bad reasoning.This decision should have nothing to do with whether or not you are capable of bringing more chips to the table for your next hand.

I agree. It's either a good push, or it's not. When I pushed in the hand that I mentioned earlier, I didn't have rebuy cash, but it seemed like the right play and it paid off for me.

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

Here's an article by Daniel about this subject:http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=72695