was this play correct: folding trips on flop

[slappy110 0]

okay...so im in the sb with q5s...new to the table so no definite reads on anyone except a player i'll refer to as ass, who was pretty aggressive as every hand i had seen at that point he was betting and raising. Anyways, there is 5 limpers, so i complete the sb, which was 1/2 the bb. Flop comes QJQ, rainbow...i lead out, im expecting ass, to raise me and given that he has to position, i figure i can trap whoever calls for two bets on the flop then go for the checkraise on the turn. So i lead, get 1 caller in the middle...and ass raises as expect...i smooth call, then the guy in the middle made it 3 bets!!! what the hell?? not an equity push as there was no flush draw...and the smooth call then reraise....hmm...then ass, caps it...so i lay it down, figuring im well behind to a hand like kq, qt, or even queens full of jacks full....turns out, ass had ace high (now you see where is name comes from) and the three bettor had JT!!!! wtf!!! i felt like an idiot...but i can't see anyone justifying calling here with no real read on the three bettor....anyone have anything to say?

[Dhall901 0]

I really can't see you laying down trips on a rainbow flop. Sure you had a weak kick, but odds of either guy having a Q are slim. Predictably someone bets out on the J, and you said yourself the other guy was full of it. Don't lay down trips

[Jdawg 0]

I think folding is a bad play, because if you look at the pre-flop action, almost all the hands that your afraid off, would probably have gotten raised pre-flop, A/Q, K/Q, J/J, Q/J (depending on position and the player). If you noticed your oppenants had hands that would make sense for them to limp pre-flop with like J/10 and A/x. Always think about the previous betting rounds if you have suspicions about your hand to see whether or not it makes sense that you could be beat.

[Random Fluke 0]

It was worse than bad. It was terrible. There is one queen left in the deck, you don't fold flopped trips in a low stakes limit game on a rainbow flop. Not ever.

[PlzFoldNow 0]

Honestly, I think most people would wait for the Big Bet on the turn to make a raise as it's more profitable. I definitely check-call to the river here, or bet out if the board makes your kicker no longer a factor.

[wrto4556 0]

Don't post results.Bad fold, only one Q left in the deck.

[Dixie Wrecked 0]

In Lee Jones' book "low limit hold em" he says that its ok if you NEVER fold trips even if you suspect that you are beat.

[slappy110 0]

i appreciate the advice. However, a couple things: 1) this was a 10-20 game, all descent players. The "ass" guy i knew was aggressive, not full of it...2) one can make an argument for folding here i suppose but to call it terrible or worse than terrible is ridiculous. To look at this situation as well...there's only 1 queen left is horrible...horrible...horrible thinking...put it this way...given my situation, there was a greater chance that one of the two guys had a queen, than per se if i had two suited cards and flopped a flush, and someone else flopping a higher flush at the same time...so when the turn gets capped do i still cap the river? no absolutely not...and in a tite 10-20 game, where there are better players, people don't generally raise with kq, definitely not qj, which were the two hands that i was afraid of most...i ask this question to the people who said..."well there is only 1 queen left in the deck": have you ever layed down qq or jj to an all in bet in a tourney? i mean, the likelihood of you having that hand and someone else have a higher pocket pair isn't very good...my purpose to post this although i was "asking" was more or less to instigate discussion and hear different opinions and help eachother...while i appreciate everyones input here i must say...if you guys intend to move up in limits making a fold here is almost routine....Thanks for everyones input. Good luck at the tables.

[slappy110 0]

at the top of the last post it was supposed to read like this: 2) one could make an argument for folding here a bad play....etc...

[Random Fluke 0]

i appreciate the advice. However, a couple things: 1) this was a 10-20 game, all descent players.

Ahh, for some reason I assumed this was a small stakes 1/2 limit game... probably because that is the games we see most questions from. This would be a terrible fold in a 1/2 game. So in a 10/20 game where I didn't think my opponents were retarded monkies... I'm not sure what I would have done here, I would have had to be in the game with reads, but I suspect I would have called the flop craziness and watched how things went on the turn. It is a standard line in the 10/20 to bet crazy on the flop , in order to buy free cards on the turn and river and also to make weak tight players fold.edit: By the way in the future if you want to get a discussion going about a hand it is best to not post the results until the next day imo, to get unpolluted answers. Also, when I've taken shots at the 10/20 I've had to drop back down in limits so I am not a winning 10/20 player yet... so take my advice for what it's worth (not much at all on the 10/20 level)

[slappy110 0]

thanks for the advice on not posting results....that makes a lot of sense...ive seen that in the past on different discussions and never understood why...and you are right about the craziness on the flop and in all fairness...the guy did get me to lay down the best hand right? : ) oh well...thanks and good luck

[TFABOM 0]

Folding was bad.3-Bettor knew Ass was an ass, and after you lead out, you smooth called Ass so 3-Bettor thought you were weak or on a draw and 3-bet because he knew Ass had a whole lot of nothing and tended to be aggressive.

[ddoggphx 0]

I still wouldn't have folded in that situation. I'd have come out firing on the turn too, to guage the reaction. But queen trips is hard to lay down on the flop. Maybe the turn.As long as your bankroll will support the variation at that level, I'd never fold trips on the flop. If you are playing above your head a bit, then yeah, I'd see how that would happen. But that's about the only way I see folding this before at least seeing the turn.

[Guest]

I'm not sure how the limit makes a LOT of difference here.If you're playing 10/20 then I assume you can afford to.If you play, you're bound to get raised, & if you're "afraid" to play the odds on best hand I don't know how you can defend it as a "common fold" or however you put it.Honestly I think you played that hand "scared" not smart.not that it wont happen from time to time, but my opinon is your aggresivness might need some work.Tough to make a read on that maybe considering the other players you seem to have pegged for pretty straight up players, but i think finding out by betting not folding would have been the ONLY choice considering the flop had no flush or straight draw.sometimes you will lose making the right call & win playing the wrong cards.so I think you either drop down to a limit you aren't afraid to lose at or be ready to lose playing the right cards more often.

[treydru21 0]

the next round then you were willing to commit to the hand, so calling 1 more bet, when you could still possibly boat. Seems like a good play to me. Folding there was just a bad play all things considered. 3 handed, with 1 Q left in the deck, the odds were better that u were facing KK or AA then him having the Q...

[pokerplayer24 0]

Really you have to call hear. If you think you're beat you can simply check and call the rest of the way and not be stuck puttign much more into the pot.

[LAPoker 0]

Is this a joke? Obviously this is a bad play. My opinion is that you are probably playing beyond your bankroll. If they had you beat they would not have been so anxious to get you out. If you would have stayed in at $1/$2 then you should be able to stay in at $10/$20, otherwise you are just throwing your money away. Looks to me like ass is used to people like you showing up at the table, and can bully you unless you have the nuts. There have only been three times that I have folded trips and twice were at the river facing allin bets, and four of one suit on the board, and once facing an allin bet and four to a straight.

[petema33 0]

i appreciate the advice. However, a couple things: 1) this was a 10-20 game, all descent players. The "ass" guy i knew was aggressive, not full of it...2) one can make an argument for folding here i suppose but to call it terrible or worse than terrible is ridiculous. To look at this situation as well...there's only 1 queen left is horrible...horrible...horrible thinking...put it this way...given my situation, there was a greater chance that one of the two guys had a queen, than per se if i had two suited cards and flopped a flush, and someone else flopping a higher flush at the same time...so when the turn gets capped do i still cap the river? no absolutely not...and in a tite 10-20 game, where there are better players, people don't generally raise with kq, definitely not qj, which were the two hands that i was afraid of most...i ask this question to the people who said..."well there is only 1 queen left in the deck": have you ever layed down qq or jj to an all in bet in a tourney? i mean, the likelihood of you having that hand and someone else have a higher pocket pair isn't very good...my purpose to post this although i was "asking" was more or less to instigate discussion and hear different opinions and help eachother...while i appreciate everyones input here i must say...if you guys intend to move up in limits making a fold here is almost routine....Thanks for everyones input. Good luck at the tables.

Actually slappy, you are completely wrong. No one in their right mind would ever fold this hand, no matter what limit you are playing at. This is only a routine fold for the tightest of tight players. Give me your reasons for folding this hand. There were no pre-flop raises so you can't put the guy on AQ normally. The odds of him having the other queen are so slim. It hurt me when I read you folded this hand. Sorry, but that was one of the dumbest moves I have ever seen. You NEVER EVER EVER fold trips on the flop especially when there is only one of the cards left in the deck. wow.

[pokernoobie 0]

terrible fold. case closed

[bdluss 0]

Slappy,First of all, sorry for everyone who is so insulting here. Honestly, it was not a bad fold. Most of these people who are saying folding was absolutely horrible have yet to progress beyond 1/2 and there is a reason for that (they can't release a hand). But that is another issue totally different. My recommendation would have been this, to 3 bet it on the flop as a means of defining the other players hand. If he had just a jack he would release it then, and now you and the maniac can play heads up and you can get plenty of value from him. However, if the other player calls, then you need to probably lead back into the pot on the turn (checking wouldnt be a bad option either to see what the other guy does). The point is this, by giving up the lead in the hand, you lost control of the range of possible hands the other player could have, and let him isolate against the maniac. But, like I said earlier, folding here was not a horrible play. It just happened that the other player decided to make a play at the maniac cause you showed some weakness.

[Kilgore Trout 0]

I will agree with bdluss I can't say it was a bad fold, but you should have raised again because that extra $10 gives you a lot more info about what is going on in the pot, if you three bet it is likely to go call, call rather than three bet four bet, and then you know everything you need to. If it gets capped then you call the exrtra $10 in hopes to hit a five because you have implied odds that justifiy it (practicly pot odds as well).To those who say 'never never never fold trips' I imagine they will stick to 1/2. There are times to fold trips in limit, heck I have folded a flopped boat to a minimum bet before.

[Smasharoo 0]

Good Vonnegut refrence.

[jgarza 0]

The stakes are IRRELEVANT. You should NEVER FOLD HERE. I'm sorry, i play as high as 10/20 on occasion, and folding in this spot is worse then bad, its terrible. In Limit Hold'em, an aggresive raise can mean so many things. Not only would I NOT fold, i would cap the betting, and if i got raised again on the turn, i would still call, even if its LIKELY I'm beat, because your pot odds are soo good, and aggresive raises in situations like this with as little as two pair or even occasionally just as semi bluffs with a straight draw to try to get a free card on the turn are way too common to consider folding here.

[Kilgore Trout 0]

I would not have picked you for a fan smash..lol

[Smasharoo 0]

I would not have picked you for a fan smash..lol

Casual aquaintance, actually.We share a NY based shrink, I've had dinner with him and Jill probably a dozen times the last 5 years.