Playing Against The Antagonist

[Merby 3]

Holy s**t, this is a long post, I look forward to the many posts of the manner, "After the first two lines, I stopped reading..." and so forth. Clearly, if you do not like reading long posts, then please add your flaming reply as quickly as possible: act now before someone beats you to a wittier flame!!Last night, I'm at my local B&M playing some 1/2 NLHE with a table full of regulars when a couple new players join our table. Both are sitting to my immediate right, and within one round of the button, the entire table is drooling with the anticipation of action that these two live players have brought to our table.Both players are in their early twenties, and it is clear that one of them (whom I will call weak-tight) has played only a handful of times before, while the other (a.k.a. antagonist) is an internet player who has taken weak-tight under his wing. Now weak-tight's name is well-deserved: it was an *unusual* event to see him enter a pot pre-flop, and if he happened to be around by the river, he would invariably show the nuts (or damn-well close to it). As such, the rest of the table slowly chipped away at his stack, and there is no real interesting story to tell about his play.His friend, on the other hand, made quite the spectacle.The antagonist had a "by the book" approach to starting hands, and when he was in a pot, played those hands hyper-aggressively. All-in-all, I am sure he felt he was an excellent TAG player who was about to school our table on poker. ...Except, he had a transparent betting strategy where every over-sized bet/raise represented a bluff (or at best, a semi-bluff), and every smaller "feeler" bet (enticing calls...) represented a strong hand. He had the strong means weak and weak means strong tell down to a tee.His play, however, is not what made him an interesting player.Whenever he and his friend were not in a hand, he would be quietly talking to his friend, telling him what he had, what the players in the pot *probably* had, and that "so-and-so should call such-and-such, because it was clear that such-and-such's bet on the turn was a bluff"... and so on. Basically he was trying to *instruct* his friend -- to the amusement of those within earshot: his reads were sometimes sooo far off as to be laughable.Whenever played a hand to showdown, we all came to expect one of the following results: 1) The losing hand rant: eg. "That was so sick, how could you call that HUGE bet on the turn with nothing but middle pair, when it was clear I must have the straight" (don't forget his strong means weak tell that the whole table had picked up by now). Or perhaps the "f***! I can't catch a f**king flush for the life of me..." 2) The winning hand "celebration" Celebration is not the correct term, as he was not simply "pleased" that he had the best hand; rather, he wanted to rub it in the face of his opponent how much he out-played him. For example, there was the time he moved all-in for 2x pot from the BB on a flop where he flopped a 5-high flush draw, only to be instacalled by the player with second pair, top kicker. When the flush hit on the turn, he was telling us how he was "surprised" the player --who only had a pair of jacks-- could make that call on his overbet flop, and that it "served him right" because such a "loose, weak" call deserves to lose the pot (I once again remind you of his strong means weak tell: the whole table put him on the flush draw).Yeah, it was great! We all would get a good laugh over it. I had played against my share of antagonists, and never let it bother me before... I would just try to out-play them and show them up when I take their money.Except... that was exactly what they were looking for. Once I decided to try to *beat* him because of his trash-talk (and not because of his strategic blind spots), I was no longer playing optimally against him. In fact, he had driven me *on tilt* without even playing in a hand against me (yet), and I was completely unaware of my tilting play (in effect, I now had a much larger psychological blind spot in my play --more than offsetting his strategic blind-spot).For example, there was the time he and I limped from MP and saw a flop: Flop: 9 T J There were 5 other limpers in the hand (including the blinds), and I was sitting with K Q for the nut straight against a flush board. It is checked to me, and I fire out 15 into the 14 dollar pot. Only the button and the antagonist call. It is likely that at least one is on the flush draw (or a made flush). I should tread with care, as if there is a flush out there, I am drawing dead. ...Except, I am only thinking about playing heads-up against the antagonist, and pricing out the button...The turn is a brick: 3 and once again it is checked to me. With $59 in the pot, I decide to fire out a stupid $60 (yes, in fact, those 12 red chips were slightly less intellegent than the average IQ of red poker chips...) The button folds and antagonist agonizes over the call... counting out his chips, saying the feared, "so it's sixty to me...? Hmmm..." --basically giving away every inadvertant tell that he is sitting on a monster (he is giving off his weak means strong tells...) Based on his play and my expectation that he is an internet player, I should have no reason to doubt these tells... add on to the fact that since he views himself as a TAG player, I can easily rule out the diamond draw... He is out of position, and would have raised his draw by now ... No, he is clearly on a made hand.The river bricks out and he quickly fires out a miscounted stack of $95 (these red chips never went to grammar school... or... they failed arithmatic... in either case, they could not count to 20 without getting mixed up at around 19). Being such a clear fold, I quickly call because... actually... I can't come up with a justification. I have gotten so irritated with my opponent that I make a call based on no thoughts whatsoever... my neurons have staged a "walk-out" after being harrassed and irritated by the input being sent through my ears from antagonist's rants. He flips over Q 8 for the flopped straight flush.I take a walk to cool down... I'm not mad that I lost the hand: he had in fact maximized his profit on the play, and I simply was cold-decked. I am mad that I made a call in a situation where it was a clear fold (I could only beat a bluff, and my weak means strong-o-meter was off the charts with all the tells falling off the guy). No it was a simple matter of my brain shutting down simply because I sooo desperately wanted to drag a large pot off the guy to *show him up*. His irritating manner was able to extract an extra miscounted "$100" off of me.Looking back at some other hands that he played against the B&M regulars, (myself included), I was able to spot several other bets that were paid off for no logical reason (although the "illigical" reason of wanting to *show him up* and drag a pot off the antagonist, kicking off another losing rant seems to fit the pattern).In the end, I have to admit that in the one-session short term, his irritating manner was able to more-than-compensate for any "percieved" strategic blind spots or "obvious" tells. To sum it up: he made mistakes, but he was able to cause us to make more mistakes. I have to give him his due: he "won that round".Final note B flat... no... I prefer A sharp... Or how about C double flat...Final comment Ignore the final note: it is out of tune. I would still never adopt that playing pattern... I prefer to make my opponents (especially the live ones) comfortable at the tables, after all, we do want them to come back. I imagine if us regulars were to antagonize all live players in our game, they would simply all migrate to the other local casinos...Cheers,MerbyP.s. If you made it this far, you have WON $1,000,000!!! Now go find someone that will pay you.

[kkcountry 0]

I think the same guy played 100max with me at windsor last night. I was on the CO with 9 9 and after 2 limpers raised it to $10. Button (the antagonist's twin) calls and do 3 others see the flop for about a $50 pot going into the flop. Flop comes 6 7 2 3 checks to me, I bet 40, the button beats me to the pot with his all in for $60 more (hadn't been at the table for more than 3 hands at this point, but he raised to 15 into a 5 dollar pf flop in the SB with 99 after 6 folds and a limp) The other 3 fold and I instacall. He flips over A X and the turn is the 9 but the river brings the 6 and I boat up, which causes him to get into a "how could you call that all in???" tirade, (as he pulls out a $100 dolla chip for me to give him 20 reds back, that big balla) and I wanted to tell him that "strong means weak baby" (And besides, the only hands I had to worry about were 77, 66, and 22, bc I'm sure he would have reraised with TT+, and he surely would have slowplayed a set, or at least not try to push me out of the pot with his ALL IN declaration.)In the next hour or so, he flopped two straights and didn't get anything out of them because he slowplayed them so bad.

[homnig 0]

Nice story merby, now hopefully you won't make this mistake again.

[Dratj 0]

1

[UncleHoot 0]

I AM NOT weak-tight, you jerk.

[Steamed Rice 0]

love reading poker storiesi actually also love playing against these types of players, mainly because im able to keep my poise 99% of the timelike Frank Costanza and Lloyd Braun say...."serenity now"

[Merby 3]

love reading poker storiesi actually also love playing against these types of players, mainly because im able to keep my poise 99% of the timelike Frank Costanza and Lloyd Braun say...."serenity now"

Actually... I also love playing with these players. Normally, they don't set me off... but at times when I am not on top of my mental state, I can let them "get to me". This usually only happens when I am tired or distracted (for example: there is nothing worse than putting a full day's work in, followed by a full 8-12 hours at the poker table: you have become a "walking target"... tired, irritated and prone to mistakes and TILT!)This story is about the first time the antagonist got to me while I still felt "fresh" and "on the ball". It is simply a cautionary tale for fellow poker players.

[Smiddywap 0]

Nice story.I think everyone who plays in a B&M comes across this type of guy every now and then. Some nights I like watching them more than the people who are having fun. This guy's play-by-play to his friend was a nice touch, haven't seen that one before.

[CzechRazor 0]

Well written. I had a similar situation once, but luckily I released my hand on the turn and started focusing on the entire table, not just the one guy I wanted to bust.

[fatman 1]

like Frank Costanza and Lloyd Braun say...."serenity now"

"serenity now....insanity later"

[ricker 0]

The thing is, from your description, it doesn't sound like he was using this strategy intentionally. It sounds like he's just an asshole

[Dratj 0]

The thing is, from your description, it doesn't sound like he was using this strategy intentionally. It sounds like he's just an asshole

yep. too much effort to try.

[No_Neck 0]

my friend Jamie plays opposite guy. He bets huge on his bluffs and underbets his monster hands. The funny part to is he always shows the monster hands and comlains he never wins a big pot.