socdave01 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 i have not read the whole thing, but from what i have heard, websites are trying to prove that poker is not a game of chance. now, is this a true loophole in the system, or did i read it wrong? because if it does come down to the words "games of chance" dont we have some kind of leverage with the fact that the US Government has deemed poker a sport and poker players athletes (see http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=59465) am i just being hopeful, or can this really be brought up to prove that poker is a skill game and not a game of chance? Link to post Share on other sites
cdipierr 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 i have not read the whole thing, but from what i have heard, websites are trying to prove that poker is not a game of chance. now, is this a true loophole in the system, or did i read it wrong? because if it does come down to the words "games of chance" dont we have some kind of leverage with the fact that the US Government has deemed poker a sport and poker players athletes (see http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=59465) am i just being hopeful, or can this really be brought up to prove that poker is a skill game and not a game of chance?The current legislation states a game influenced by chance, which poker is of course.Doesn't matter anyway, many states (including the one I live in) have deemed poker a game of chance in a court of law. To quote a politician who chimed in on the debate a while back, "You don't know what the card will be until the 52nd is dealt, so it's a game of chance." Link to post Share on other sites
sholden 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 To quote a politician who chimed in on the debate a while back, "You don't know what the card will be until the 52nd is dealt, so it's a game of chance."Well you know once the 51st is dealt Link to post Share on other sites
danlux 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 You also don't know whether a fly ball will hit a gust of wind taking it 1 foot farther or whether it will be a simple fly out. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 The current legislation states a game influenced by chance, which poker is of course.Doesn't matter anyway, many states (including the one I live in) have deemed poker a game of chance in a court of law. To quote a politician who chimed in on the debate a while back, "You don't know what the card will be until the 52nd is dealt, so it's a game of chance."Its a game of mixed skill and chance. The chips create a level of skill, while the cards are all 100% random, making it gambling. You also don't know whether a fly ball will hit a gust of wind taking it 1 foot farther or whether it will be a simple fly out.This is ridiculous. Baseball is a sport, the reason the ball didnt become a home run was because the player did not strike the ball with enough force to fly it over the fence. Not a gust of wind. Same reason in golf. If you hit a tree, its not a unlucky bounce into the water. Its the poor skill that he didnt drive it down the fairway.Only "Game", that is 100% skill is chess. And poker is a game Link to post Share on other sites
FourFlusher 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 In the state of California poker is a game of skill.That's one of the worst things about this stooopid bill...it's a states rights issue in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 In the state of California poker is a game of skill.That's one of the worst things about this stooopid bill...it's a states rights issue in the first place.I don't get how it can be a game of skill one place and a game of chance another. Link to post Share on other sites
JeremyG 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 I don't get how it can be a game of skill one place and a game of chance another.It can be, because it's based on the state. However most states that have had laws challenged have determined it's skill.It's legal to have darts tourneys, bowling tourneys, etc. in Indiana... they are games of skill.Specifically in Indiana, nobody has taken it to the State supreme court for a ruling. However I think that if it were taken there, they'd declare it a game of skill. Most of the time, states look at other states who have made rulings so it could "spread" that way.The issue though, is that in Indiana the law specifically states that "games of chance" are illegal. Oh, and Indiana defines the "quarter pitch" game, and the "ring toss" and "pop a balloon" games "GAMES OF SKILL"... Link to post Share on other sites
myxomatosized 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 You also don't know whether a fly ball will hit a gust of wind taking it 1 foot farther or whether it will be a simple fly out.i love you Link to post Share on other sites
Dogpatch 2 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Well, the wording is all about banks and debit cards and gambling sites. I still say Neteller is not a gambling site, so how in the world could I be prosecuted for funding a Neteller account? I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but that is my initial feeling on the subject. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 lottery is legalbetting on sports is legalhorse race betting is legalthose are obviously skill games that have no degree of chance or luckso now maybe you see why poker is illegal. Link to post Share on other sites
MasterLJ 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 i have not read the whole thing, but from what i have heard, websites are trying to prove that poker is not a game of chance. now, is this a true loophole in the system, or did i read it wrong? because if it does come down to the words "games of chance" dont we have some kind of leverage with the fact that the US Government has deemed poker a sport and poker players athletes (see http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=59465) am i just being hopeful, or can this really be brought up to prove that poker is a skill game and not a game of chance?Many states have already agreed that poker is not a game of chance, it's a game of skill so there is definite validity in the poker sites using this argument. This just highlights why this BS legislation should have been left for states to decide. Sorry Tennessee. Link to post Share on other sites
Monster1 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Online poker is a game of chance, where as, live poker in a casino is a game of skill.But they were suited. Link to post Share on other sites
FourFlusher 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Credit cards are not the problem. I haven't been able to deposit with one for a long time...I use Neteller.The problem is going to be when/if the sites themselves pull out of the US markets, as a posted statement suggested they might. Then you won't be able to send them an envelope full of cash. No place to play. Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 so someone tell me how BINGO is legal in Texas and poker is not? BINGO is 99.99% luck and .01% making sure you mark the number correctly. Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 In the state of California poker is a game of skill.That's one of the worst things about this stooopid bill...it's a states rights issue in the first place.Well, the new bill specifically targets the credit card companies making money transfers to and from companies that use the telecommunications systems for gambling.The telcom system is national (international), and therefore affects interstate commerce... Federal. Credit cards are issued by banks that are also regulated at the federal level by the national government through the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution.Besides, "states rights" kind of died with the U.S. Civil War anyway.AZ (where I live) allows Poker in Indian Casions, and it allows "friendly games" as long as everyone in the game is 21+ and no person is profiting other than through the game. So, I can host a game of poker at my house as long as I don't charge a cover fee, pull a rake, sell goods or refreshments to the participants, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
FourFlusher 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Yeah, I will have to concede on the states right issue, given your argument.But, Man, I hate that Interstate Commerce provision. That's the one they use for every thing under the sun.It more than kinda sucks that they could depend on one clause so heavily, and ignore the ones that are inconvienent for them. Link to post Share on other sites
insano 0 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 lottery is legalbetting on sports is legalhorse race betting is legalthose are obviously skill games that have no degree of chance or luckso now maybe you see why poker is illegal.not in my state Link to post Share on other sites
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