Neteller Hacking

[blakheart 3]

What did you guys figure out was the source of the neteller hacking that was happening. I just got my account comprimised. I recieved an e-mail from neteller saying that i had changed my e-mail last night- so I checked my account and someone had done an instacash withdrawal for $1500. Fortunately I have a checking account without overdraft protection that I use for online stuff, so there is no money in there to be had. Neteller is investigating it, but they can tell it was a different IP etc.My concern is about the rest of my stuff. Was it a key logger? an e-mail hacker? I obv don't respond to phishing e-mails, but I am very concerned about my online banking etc.

[nutzbuster 7]

Good Lord, again this happens???With all this other crap going on???Incredible.

[Sysvr4 0]

Ok, so let's try to figure this out a bit... mind answering a couple of questions about it?1. Is the email address you registered with FCP the same as the one you registered with Neteller?2. Is the password you registered for both the same?3. Did your email account have an email from Neteller detailing your account information?4. Is your email address registered via a free web-based email provider? (ala yahoo, gmail, hotmail, etc)Your answers to this may help us determine how they're getting the information. I have a theory, but don't want to disclose it until such time as we get more information on the topic.Oh, btw, anyone else whose Neteller has been hacked, feel free to reply here with the answers to the above. It may very well help us figure this out.Jeff

[terradawg 0]

Ok, so let's try to figure this out a bit... mind answering a couple of questions about it?1. Is the email address you registered with FCP the same as the one you registered with Neteller?2. Is the password you registered for both the same?3. Did your email account have an email from Neteller detailing your account information?4. Is your email address registered via a free web-based email provider? (ala yahoo, gmail, hotmail, etc)Your answers to this may help us determine how they're getting the information. I have a theory, but don't want to disclose it until such time as we get more information on the topic.Oh, btw, anyone else whose Neteller has been hacked, feel free to reply here with the answers to the above. It may very well help us figure this out.Jeff

1. no2. no3. not sure what this means - i can search my gmail and find my account # for neteller, but no password. 4. yes, gmail.

[akishore 0]

Honestly, I'll be blatant about it -- FCP's poker room most likely ****ed up with Instacash.When you deposit to a site with Instacash, you give them:a) Neteller account #B) Neteller secure IDc) last four digits of bank accountThat's all anyone needs to be able to make the same instacash deposit on any other site.Coincidentally:a) my Neteller account was also compromised via Instacash for roughly $2.5K back in mid-March.B) I deposited to FCP w/ Instacash way back when.c) I saw a ton of posts on this forum about similar things happening to other people.d) I saw nothing on 2+2, PocketFives or RGP that had nearly the same magnitude, if any.The good news is that Neteller did write off all debts, as did my bank, and my Neteller account number and secure ID were both changed.I might be sounding like a jackass who's jumping to conclusions -- that's the reason I have yet to say this on any post, although I almost did twice -- but I don't mind putting my opnion out there now.Even if FCP did **** up, there is no way they would admit it. And even if a security hole was fixed, I haven't put money on there again and I don't plan to.AseemP.S. I also want to add that the whole keylogger / compromised password theories are also most likely off. This is what Neteller tried to tell me, that it was probably my fault for mishandling my information, but that's completely false. I am a comp sci major who's studied plenty about security and I tend to take this stuff very seriously. Not only am I 99.99% positive that I don't have a keylogger installed, I also know that you don't even need the Neteller password to use Instacash.

[Vatche 0]

Ok, so let's try to figure this out a bit... mind answering a couple of questions about it?1. Is the email address you registered with FCP the same as the one you registered with Neteller?No2. Is the password you registered for both the same?yes, at the time. (i changed all my passwords after the hack.)3. Did your email account have an email from Neteller detailing your account information?No4. Is your email address registered via a free web-based email provider? (ala yahoo, gmail, hotmail, etc)NoYour answers to this may help us determine how they're getting the information. I have a theory, but don't want to disclose it until such time as we get more information on the topic.Oh, btw, anyone else whose Neteller has been hacked, feel free to reply here with the answers to the above. It may very well help us figure this out.Jeff

[The Lion 0]

Yea I have heard a few of these stories. Do anyone have any suggestions or tips on how to prevent these things from happening?

[HangukMiguk 8]

The thefts that happened to people like Custom and also Neverwin were clearly that caused by a keylogger. It's been proven; both Custom and Neverwin accepted file transfers that turned out to be keyloggers.The instacash thefts haven't been proven of that. There's a leak somewhere, and someone's security has been compromised (most likely FCP, since like aseem said, we're the only forum that's showing a mass amount of these hacks).With that being said, there's ways to counterract this leak, wherever it might be, and all the other risks we face of transferring large sums of money between our banks and Neteller/Firepay/Poker sites:1) Accept no File Transfers from people on AIM/MSN/Yahoo/ICQ/Jabber/Gadu Gadu that you don't know. Also, if you can't verify that a person you're talking to is the person they claim to be (remember the hack attempts through custom's AIM), don't accept a transfer. I have a trusted three people who are NOT involved in poker in any way that I accept file transfers from, and I only do that when I request a file from them. Anyone else, I ask them to e-mail the file to me. I also don't tell them the e-mail address; they already know my e-mail.2) Have a good security system set up on your computer. I suggest:ZoneAlarm firewallWindows Defender and Ad-Aware for Spyware detectionAVG Anti-VirusBrowser Hijack Retaliator by Zamaan's Software to make sure your IE is secure.Opera Web BrowserAll of this is free, and very very good. I have yet to have any intrusions on my computer using this setup. (Knock on wood).3) Do not use the instacash option on any site. Use a normal EFT through Neteller, wait the 2 days to get it from your bank account, then deposit that through the poker client. If you need that money that instant, 80% of the time, you're probably better off NOT having that money at that instant.4) If you DO need that money instantly, do your instacash deposit through Neteller DIRECTLY on their website, not through a client's cashier. To ensure your safety, incur the friggin fee and like it. The problem will be bigger if you don't be smart about it. I would honestly just waive this option completely and go with...5) Disable instacash. Just call Neteller and their security department will do this for you within 5 minutes. It was a very painless call for me to make to ensure I didn't get screwed in the long term. Seriously, I can wait the two days to get funds if I need to get them if it means I'm not going to have to worry about my bank account getting it for thousands of dollars I didn't request.6) IF you get compromised, call Neteller ASAP! I'm sure this is common sense, but I want to reiterate, don't wait, it will look suspicious on you and make them thing you're just a bitter compulsive gambler who's just upset because they lost a ton in a poker game and now wants to get reimbursed for it, so they'll just try to screw the system.7) Make sure your passwords are different, and hard to guess. I made a huge anagram out of a sentence and an easy to remember series of numbers. I also mix capitals with lowercase letters. Change this password regularly.

[FCP Bob 1,323]

Honestly, I'll be blatant about it -- FCP's poker room most likely ****ed up with Instacash.When you deposit to a site with Instacash, you give them:a) Neteller account #B) Neteller secure IDc) last four digits of bank accountThat's all anyone needs to be able to make the same instacash deposit on any other site.Coincidentally:a) my Neteller account was also compromised via Instacash for roughly $2.5K back in mid-March.B) I deposited to FCP w/ Instacash way back when.c) I saw a ton of posts on this forum about similar things happening to other people.d) I saw nothing on 2+2, PocketFives or RGP that had nearly the same magnitude, if any.The good news is that Neteller did write off all debts, as did my bank, and my Neteller account number and secure ID were both changed.I might be sounding like a jackass who's jumping to conclusions -- that's the reason I have yet to say this on any post, although I almost did twice -- but I don't mind putting my opnion out there now.Even if FCP did **** up, there is no way they would admit it. And even if a security hole was fixed, I haven't put money on there again and I don't plan to.AseemP.S. I also want to add that the whole keylogger / compromised password theories are also most likely off. This is what Neteller tried to tell me, that it was probably my fault for mishandling my information, but that's completely false. I am a comp sci major who's studied plenty about security and I tend to take this stuff very seriously. Not only am I 99.99% positive that I don't have a keylogger installed, I also know that you don't even need the Neteller password to use Instacash.

Hi Aseem, there are a couple problems with your theory.1. I went back and checked some of the player's FCP accounts who reported in the forum that they had their Neteller hacked into and 3 of the 4 that I just quickly checked including Vatche who has posted in this thread have never used Instacash at FCP to make any deposits. What that means is that at no time would a player's bank account information been sent to us so it couldn't be hacked from us to allow somebody to make an instacash deposit.2. The API that we use with Neteller doesn't leave the secure ID information with FCP. That information isn't stored with FCP it only goes between the player and Neteller.A couple of the players who posted in the forum hadn't even ever made a real money deposit at FCP.

[akishore 0]

Hi Aseem, there are a couple problems with your theory.1. I went back and checked some of the player's FCP accounts who reported in the forum that they had their Neteller hacked into and 3 of the 4 that I just quickly checked including Vatche who has posted in this thread have never used Instacash at FCP to make any deposits. What that means is that at no time would a player's bank account information been sent to us so it couldn't be hacked from us to allow somebody to make an instacash deposit.2. The API that we use with Neteller doesn't leave the secure ID information with FCP. That information isn't stored with FCP it only goes between the player and Neteller.A couple of the players who posted in the forum hadn't even ever made a real money deposit at FCP.

FCP Info,Thanks for the courteous reply, and I apologize if my post came off as overly reactionary and unjustly assuming.I cannot respond to your points that some victims never played at FCP or deposited via Instacash, but I am still baffled by the huge correlation between being a victim and being a member of FCP (the forum).As far as the API, it can still be possible for the packets of information being sent to Neteller (e.g. the secure ID) to be intercepted, if proper SSL/etc. security isn't being used, no?My point wasn't to accuse FCP on a conclusive basis; rather, I feel that such a dramatic event almost definitely has some single source. As in any set of statistical data, there will be exceptions and outliers to any observed correlation.So to the theories that these thefts came as a result of bad security practices on the part of the victims, I would be a clear exception. And as to my theory, the players you talk about are also exceptions.The presence of outliers and exceptions doesn't necessarily disprove either theory.Aseem

[krup24 0]

I had same email account as fcp with same password and had my account info stored in my email (yahoo) and deposited via instacash. I never got hit.Since have changed all passwords, removed instacash, and account details from email. Now my account details exist on one piece of paper.

[blakheart 3]

Ok, so let's try to figure this out a bit... mind answering a couple of questions about it?1. Is the email address you registered with FCP the same as the one you registered with Neteller?yes2. Is the password you registered for both the same?no3. Did your email account have an email from Neteller detailing your account information?yes4. Is your email address registered via a free web-based email provider? (ala yahoo, gmail, hotmail, etc)noYour answers to this may help us determine how they're getting the information. I have a theory, but don't want to disclose it until such time as we get more information on the topic.Oh, btw, anyone else whose Neteller has been hacked, feel free to reply here with the answers to the above. It may very well help us figure this out.Jeff

The thefts that happened to people like Custom and also Neverwin were clearly that caused by a keylogger. It's been proven; both Custom and Neverwin accepted file transfers that turned out to be keyloggers.The instacash thefts haven't been proven of that. There's a leak somewhere, and someone's security has been compromised (most likely FCP, since like aseem said, we're the only forum that's showing a mass amount of these hacks).With that being said, there's ways to counterract this leak, wherever it might be, and all the other risks we face of transferring large sums of money between our banks and Neteller/Firepay/Poker sites:1) Accept no File Transfers from people on AIM/MSN/Yahoo/ICQ/Jabber/Gadu Gadu that you don't know. Also, if you can't verify that a person you're talking to is the person they claim to be (remember the hack attempts through custom's AIM), don't accept a transfer. I have a trusted three people who are NOT involved in poker in any way that I accept file transfers from, and I only do that when I request a file from them. Anyone else, I ask them to e-mail the file to me. I also don't tell them the e-mail address; they already know my e-mail. i dont use any instant messege2) Have a good security system set up on your computer. I suggest:ZoneAlarm firewallWindows Defender and Ad-Aware for Spyware detectionAVG Anti-Virus I use this oneBrowser Hijack Retaliator by Zamaan's Software to make sure your IE is secure.Opera Web BrowserAll of this is free, and very very good. I have yet to have any intrusions on my computer using this setup. (Knock on wood).3) Do not use the instacash option on any site. Use a normal EFT through Neteller, wait the 2 days to get it from your bank account, then deposit that through the poker client. If you need that money that instant, 80% of the time, you're probably better off NOT having that money at that instant. vulnerable here- forgot to turn it off4) If you DO need that money instantly, do your instacash deposit through Neteller DIRECTLY on their website, not through a client's cashier. To ensure your safety, incur the friggin fee and like it. The problem will be bigger if you don't be smart about it. I would honestly just waive this option completely and go with...5) Disable instacash. Just call Neteller and their security department will do this for you within 5 minutes. It was a very painless call for me to make to ensure I didn't get screwed in the long term. Seriously, I can wait the two days to get funds if I need to get them if it means I'm not going to have to worry about my bank account getting it for thousands of dollars I didn't request.6) IF you get compromised, call Neteller ASAP! I'm sure this is common sense, but I want to reiterate, don't wait, it will look suspicious on you and make them thing you're just a bitter compulsive gambler who's just upset because they lost a ton in a poker game and now wants to get reimbursed for it, so they'll just try to screw the system.7) Make sure your passwords are different, and hard to guess. I made a huge anagram out of a sentence and an easy to remember series of numbers. I also mix capitals with lowercase letters. Change this password regularly.