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how the hell does this happen? did these tards not learn from the friggin alcohol prohibition?!this is absolutely retarded. i don't see any forseeable way that this is deemed constitutionaly by the supreme court.

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The worst part about this is that it probably doesn't reflect the views of all of our Congressmen. It's just tacked to the Safe Port bill, which otherwise is a fine legislation. It's forcing our representatives to choose between national security and online gaming: obviously, which are they going to pick? This issue deserves its own bill; it's a disgrace.I'm sure there are many who are against the banning of online gaming but don't want to vote against the Port Security bill.

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So, does anyone know if the bill bans us from using Neteller? Also, hypothetically speaking, if I don't deposit again...can I still get my money if I decide to withdraw down the road, or do I need to get it out now while I still can?

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The worst part about this is that it probably doesn't reflect the views of all of our Congressmen. It's just tacked to the Safe Port bill, which otherwise is a fine legislation. It's forcing our representatives to choose between national security and online gaming: obviously, which are they going to pick? This issue deserves its own bill; it's a disgrace.I'm sure there are many who are against the banning of online gaming but don't want to vote against the Port Security bill.
then they're lazy. don't go on fucking recess, disapprove the bill, and fix it so it doesn't screw over millions of americans.this is such a farce, you know the only reason frist tacked this onto that bill is that he knew the bill by itself wouldn't pass. he just trapped every one of our representatives into voting this into effect and it worked.and i guess he just made the joke we were saying true: "a vote for online gambling is a vote for terrorism."faggot.
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So, does anyone know if the bill bans us from using Neteller? Also, hypothetically speaking, if I don't deposit again...can I still get my money if I decide to withdraw down the road, or do I need to get it out now while I still can?
I believe the language of the bill forbids any transaction with "internet gaming sites". So, I think they wouldn't be allowed to accept money either, right?
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So, does anyone know if the bill bans us from using Neteller? Also, hypothetically speaking, if I don't deposit again...can I still get my money if I decide to withdraw down the road, or do I need to get it out now while I still can?
I called neteller, the best answer they gave me was "we don't forsee any problems with you being able to transfer funds to and from your bank account."Like PokerChamps, and certain Prima and Ongame skins said "we don't forsee any problems with the bills in the US government, and won't be shutting down access to US customers" followed by them doing the exact opposite of what they said.They said to e-mail compliance@neteller.com over your concerns. You'll probably get a form e-mail most likely though, but I suggest trying it anyway.
I believe the language of the bill forbids any transaction with "internet gaming sites". So, I think they wouldn't be allowed to accept money either, right?
Neteller is based in the Isle of Man. It is not a US-based financial institution. Therefore, it is not governed by the FDIC or the Federal Trade Commission, or whoever oversees banks here. Therefore, I highly doubt it has to conform to restrictions placed on American financial institutions. Whether or not American financial institutions will be allowed to complete transactions with Neteller remains a mystery. However, if they do that, they should just as well restrict transactions to foreign bank accounts (which I suggest everyone start looking into getting, just in case), as we could just as well use those for our poker transactions.
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then they're lazy. don't go on fucking recess, disapprove the bill, and fix it so it doesn't screw over millions of americans.this is such a farce, you know the only reason frist tacked this onto that bill is that he knew the bill by itself wouldn't pass. he just trapped every one of our representatives into voting this into effect and it worked.and i guess he just made the joke we were saying true: "a vote for online gambling is a vote for terrorism."faggot.
QFT this is exactly what I'm saying. This terrible. I'm a Republican, but f.uck Frist..
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QFT this is exactly what I'm saying. This terrible. I'm a Republican, but f.uck Frist..
i'm a republican too, and i will be blowing my brains all over the pavement if Bush signs this into effect.on that note, everyone better start writing the White House NOW. Don't wait for the PPA to say so. Do it now. Tell Bush we don't need a moral Gestapo telling us what we can and cannot spend our money on.
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i'm a republican too, and i will be blowing my brains all over the pavement if Bush signs this into effect.on that note, everyone better start writing the White House NOW. Don't wait for the PPA to say so. Do it now. Tell Bush we don't need a moral Gestapo telling us what we can and cannot spend our money on.
I can tell you right now that trying to get Bush to do anything on this issue will be utterly useless.
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I can tell you right now that trying to get Bush to do anything on this issue will be utterly useless.
i knowhe's still trying to win a spelling bee.he'll get it one day.maybe if he stops confusing his R's with the color yellow, he'll do fine.
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Neteller is based in the Isle of Man. It is not a US-based financial institution. Therefore, it is not governed by the FDIC or the Federal Trade Commission, or whoever oversees banks here. Therefore, I highly doubt it has to conform to restrictions placed on American financial institutions. Whether or not American financial institutions will be allowed to complete transactions with Neteller remains a mystery. However, if they do that, they should just as well restrict transactions to foreign bank accounts (which I suggest everyone start looking into getting, just in case), as we could just as well use those for our poker transactions.
this is the 64K question really. I think that MrK over at 2p2 is being reactionary to the wording of the bill as the bill itself is aimed at sports betting sites, but, planning for the worst is always the best option. Frist put this rider on a bill that he knew would damn well get passed. Riders are constantly put on bills and are known as pork. Now, what can happen in the senate is that it gets chopped up a bit as the McCain-Feingold Campaign finance reform bill was very strict on soft money when it hit the senate, but when it got passed, it was watered down. Technically Neteller, Epassporte, Moneybookers, and Firepay aren't gambling sites and are only intermediaries and the financial insitutions sure as hell will be up in arms over people not being able to shuffle money in and out of their banks. Everyone needs to relax right now and see where this is going and what the end conclusion will be. Pulling money out of sites and going completely bonkers over this is the wrong thing to do now
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this is the 64K question really. I think that MrK over at 2p2 is being reactionary to the wording of the bill as the bill itself is aimed at sports betting sites, but, planning for the worst is always the best option. Frist put this rider on a bill that he knew would damn well get passed. Riders are constantly put on bills and are known as pork. Now, what can happen in the senate is that it gets chopped up a bit as the McCain-Feingold Campaign finance reform bill was very strict on soft money when it hit the senate, but when it got passed, it was watered down. Technically Neteller, Epassporte, Moneybookers, and Firepay aren't gambling sites and are only intermediaries and the financial insitutions sure as hell will be up in arms over people not being able to shuffle money in and out of their banks. Everyone needs to relax right now and see where this is going and what the end conclusion will be. Pulling money out of sites and going completely bonkers over this is the wrong thing to do now
Good Post. I think that patience is important, we need to really understand the specifics before we do something stupid like pulling all of our money offline.
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this is the 64K question really. I think that MrK over at 2p2 is being reactionary to the wording of the bill as the bill itself is aimed at sports betting sites, but, planning for the worst is always the best option. Frist put this rider on a bill that he knew would damn well get passed. Riders are constantly put on bills and are known as pork. Now, what can happen in the senate is that it gets chopped up a bit as the McCain-Feingold Campaign finance reform bill was very strict on soft money when it hit the senate, but when it got passed, it was watered down. Technically Neteller, Epassporte, Moneybookers, and Firepay aren't gambling sites and are only intermediaries and the financial insitutions sure as hell will be up in arms over people not being able to shuffle money in and out of their banks. Everyone needs to relax right now and see where this is going and what the end conclusion will be. Pulling money out of sites and going completely bonkers over this is the wrong thing to do now
I agree, but on the same note, not moving money out and then having it stuck there when/if the US government bans transfers to Neteller/Firepay. Epassporte will almost be instantly rendered useless if I'm not mistaken, as it is, in essence a prepaid credit card with secondary functions in that it CAN send and receive money from poker sites.I know these are all hypotheticals and everything, but this is a BIG situation where there is not a single one of us that has a definitive answer on anything at this point, as to whether we'll wake up days, weeks, months from now and no longer be able to get our poker clients to connect, whether our banks will accept transfers from neteller, whether we're going to be sitting at home in a tournament and have the feds bust down our front doors, whatever.I just still suggest people start looking into what it takes to get a foreign bank account if they haven't already. Not necessarily saying to get one yet that might go wasted when/if we find out neteller's a safe zone or not, but start looking into the process of it, and having some reputable foreign banks that our government can't regulate on bookmark.I should state for the record that I, for one, am leaving my money on Full Tilt until I know what exactly's going to happen. But rest assured that I have been researching foreign bank accounts, and have been and will be maintaining contact with neteller over what if scenarios reguarding the passage of this bill.
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There have been high court cases on the matter before, with the judges ruling in favor of poker being a game of skill (Bill Baxter).
Arguing that poker is a game of skill will not work.From the text of the bill ... defintion of bet or wager = "... or a game SUBJECT to chance..."You can argue that, in the long term, poker is a game of skill but you will never be able to argue that poker isn't SUBJECT to chance.Even worse, the bill not only prohibits transfers to gambling sites but also "... the banks that represent such sites." meaning Neteller is probably out too. :club:
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The bill says the Federal Board of Regulators or something needs to make the details of the law and such...so we'll know before anything really happens. Even when/if Bush signs it into law...we're still ok for a bit.

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Good Post. I think that patience is important, we need to really understand the specifics before we do something stupid like pulling all of our money offline.
one thing that this bill does not do is attach internet gambling to the federal wire act, which is the crux of the real issue. If internet gambling had been added to the wire acts then we'd all be royally screwed. As is, the wording is very vauge and broad, so it leaves a lot of grey area. They way it looks to be structured is that it will turn into a DoJ issue. The ramifications of this are very unsure right now, as the wording may screw payment places like neteller, or have them still stay as they are. This bill is far from finished
Even worse, the bill not only prohibits transfers to gambling sites but also "... the banks that represent such sites." meaning Neteller is probably out too. :club:
neteller isn't a bank per se, its just an intermediary. That may or may not be its saving grace. THere are places in europe that take neteller payments that aren't related to gambling sites
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one thing that this bill does not do is attach internet gambling to the federal wire act, which is the crux of the real issue. If internet gambling had been added to the wire acts then we'd all be royally screwed. As is, the wording is very vauge and broad, so it leaves a lot of grey area. They way it looks to be structured is that it will turn into a DoJ issue. The ramifications of this are very unsure right now, as the wording may screw payment places like neteller, or have them still stay as they are. This bill is far from finished
hopefully, the DoJ will pretty much ignore this issue. This is way too tedious and minute for them to really care about.And you're right, the Wire Act would've screwed us all. With that not attached to this, there is really very little they can do to prosecute us the players.
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So, does anyone know if the bill bans us from using Neteller?
It appears the answer is yes. The bill expressly prohibits transfers (which includes checks and MOs BTW) to "Internet gambling sites or the banks which represent such sites" [sec 802, para 5361 (a) (2)].That said, I don't know if you need to yank your bankroll, since the bill only prohinits transfer TO these sites, not from.
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The bill says the Federal Board of Regulators or something needs to make the details of the law and such...so we'll know before anything really happens. Even when/if Bush signs it into law...we're still ok for a bit.
bush signing this is nothing more then a rubber stamp. Remember, this bill is a defense bill, and the gambling got tacked on as a rider. The gambling isn't the focus of the bill at all, or even close. What we have to hope for is that enough of an uproar about gambling being tacked onto a defense bill brings about some different wording or more clarity in teh wording of it
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neteller isn't a bank per se, its just an intermediary. That may or may not be its saving grace. THere are places in europe that take neteller payments that aren't related to gambling sites
that was one thing i asked to the supervisor i spoke to from neteller, but she would not give me a clear answer on. that could, in fact, save us from getting screwed.firepay i'm not too sure of.
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neteller isn't a bank per se, its just an intermediary. That may or may not be its saving grace. THere are places in europe that take neteller payments that aren't related to gambling sites
For purposes of this bill, Neteller is a bank, or more precisely part of a "designated payment system".And in this bill, a "designated payment system" means anything the Attorney General and Federal Reserve determine "could be utilized in connection with ... any restricted transaction". [Para 5362 (3)]The fact that Neteller also facilitates other legal transactions is irrelevant. If they work with gambling sites, US banks will not be able to transfer to them under this bill.
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