I Paid To See The Cards

[simo_8ball 0]

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...p;#entry1254883I knew there was a thread about this somewhere. It was a hand between Phil Laak and Minh Ly. Laak called on the river and Minh mucked. Laak would have won the pot without showing his hand if Negreanu hadn't requested to see it.From "Robert's Rules"Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

[navybuttons 15]

Same here. I've had it happen both ways, where I've mucked a complete bluff and villain doesn't have to show and where villain has mucked and I haven't had to show. If you're gonna show one card though, you DO have to show both cards in order to be considered for the pot.

no. again. you have to show both if there is a showdown. (you have to table the winning hand). if your opponent mucks a player can ask to see both if you show one but you have the only live hand. what if your opponent mucked, you showed one, and then mucked? the pot gets put in the box?

[TheCinciKid 0]

no. again. you have to show both if there is a showdown. (you have to table the winning hand). if your opponent mucks a player can ask to see both if you show one but you have the only live hand. what if your opponent mucked, you showed one, and then mucked? the pot gets put in the box?

You're post is really confusing here. What I was trying to say is that sometimes people will try to show only one of their cards...say a Q when a Q is the top card on board...at the showdown because they don't want to show that they were playing Q4o or whatever. Anyone can ask to see that other card and if anyone else shows down their hand, that other card has to be shown in order for the player with the Q to win the pot. Now, if everyone else mucks you can show one card, both or none and still take down the pot b/c everyone else's cards are in the muck.

[Scott3705 0]

wrong. sorry.commerce, bike, hollywood park, hawaiian gardens, morongo, pechanga, wynn, bellagio, harrah's new orleans, hustler.

You're confusing in your posts. I don't think I get what you're saying. Are you saying those are places that don't require a hand to be tabled at showdown? Cause the Bellagio required a winning hand to be tabled in June. Just in case I'm not being clear, what I'm saying is: given the action: V1 bets the river, I call. V1 mucks saying you got it, I cannot be given the pot unless I show my winning hand.

[simo_8ball 0]

Just in case I'm not being clear, what I'm saying is: given the action: V1 bets the river, I call. V1 mucks saying you got it, I cannot be given the pot unless I show my winning hand.

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...p;#entry1254883I knew there was a thread about this somewhere. It was a hand between Phil Laak and Minh Ly. Laak called on the river and Minh mucked. Laak would have won the pot without showing his hand if Negreanu hadn't requested to see it.From "Robert's Rules"Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

[Zach6668 513]

I only read the first two replies.They are both wrong.If you bet, and are called on the river, OR it is checked down, then any player in the hand has the RIGHT to ask to see your cards. Period.Why do you think you can see the mucked hands online?

[JMoney2681 0]

I only read the first two replies.They are both wrong.If you bet, and are called on the river, OR it is checked down, then any player in the hand has the RIGHT to ask to see your cards. Period.Why do you think you can see the mucked hands online?

I agree, it is their right, but most players don't or won't request it. If they do I would always show my hand, but most don't. (Im talking about when a Donkey bets the river, and I call and he just instamucks. I usually just muck my hand and scoop the pot, unless of course someone requested to see it, but no one usually does.)

[simo_8ball 0]

Why do you think you can see the mucked hands online?

I think some sites allow you to see all cards dealt, even those folded preflop. I know Pacific does if you email them.

[Actuary 3]

I only read the first two replies.

so you missed the full frontal nude of Kornikova ?****************************Navy,I've never played poker in a casino :DIf there was a perpetual bluffer at table that I finally "paid to see", I see nothing wrong with calling his cards out. I'm paying for that info; i.e. taking risk.

[pragtyro 0]

You're confusing in your posts. I don't think I get what you're saying. Are you saying those are places that don't require a hand to be tabled at showdown? Cause the Bellagio required a winning hand to be tabled in June. Just in case I'm not being clear, what I'm saying is: given the action: V1 bets the river, I call. V1 mucks saying you got it, I cannot be given the pot unless I show my winning hand.

Wrong

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

It is my understanding that you have the right to see any hands that went to showdown. So, just ask if you want to. And deal with the social stigma.

"If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins."

At any casino I've been to, you can ask to see any hand that has been called at showdown. People may give you dirty looks, but if you really want to see them and think it will be a big help, then go for it. Online, most sites have features that allow you to see all showed down hands.Refer to the above posts for the specifics of the rules.

If you win the hand, let it go. If you weren't involved in the showdown, you can ask to see the loser's hand before it is mucked, but tell the dealer that you want to see it. And do not do it very often.

if you call their bet and wait for them to show and they simply muck, does that mean that you now don't have to show? since you're hand is the last remaining live hand, do you still have to show your cards to win the pot?

Yes.

I've never played poker in a casino

In that case, I'm not sure if you should be giving an opinion of the rules in a casino.

[Actuary 3]

In that case, I'm not sure if you should be giving an opinion of the rules in a casino.

well I've never been on the Sun either dumbassBut it's my understanding it's hot there.It's my understanding the French speak FrenchI can read rules.And understand they may be applied/modified by houses differently.and fwiw, I gave the correct response, no?

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

well I've never been on the Sun either dumbassBut it's my understanding it's hot there.It's my understanding the French speak FrenchI can read rules.And understand they may be applied/modified by houses differently.and fwiw, I gave the correct response, no?

Reading the rules and experiencing how the rules are applied are two different things. If you haven't been there in person, you haven't seen the reactions that people have when their hands are asked to be shown, or the repercussion that you would experience if the hand that was then shown happened to be a winning flush when the other player didn't realize that he was bluffing with the best hand. It happens.When I call a bet of someone whom I think is bluffing, I don't show my hand until they do. If they muck, I then show (without asking what they had) and rake the chips.http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=74654

[Actuary 3]

Reading the rules and experiencing how the rules are applied are two different things. If you haven't been there in person, you haven't seen the reactions that people have when their hands are asked to be shown, or the repercussion that you would experience if the hand that was then shown happened to be a winning flush when the other player didn't realize that he was bluffing with the best hand. It happens.

did you not understand the tone of my "I've never played poker in a casino" responding to Navy.it meant, "ok, so maybe I know the rules; but I'm not experienced with the social aspects"prety obvious. It's like you are pointing something out that I already noted

[Zach6668 513]

Reading the rules and experiencing how the rules are applied are two different things. If you haven't been there in person, you haven't seen the reactions that people have when their hands are asked to be shown, or the repercussion that you would experience if the hand that was then shown happened to be a winning flush when the other player didn't realize that he was bluffing with the best hand. It happens.When I call a bet of someone whom I think is bluffing, I don't show my hand until they do. If they muck, I then show (without asking what they had) and rake the chips.http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=74654

Stop being a ****.Just because it's not what you do, doesn't make it the rules.It is BLACK AND WHITE. If someone bets, and is called, OR, the hand checks around, then ANY PLAYER WHO WAS DEALT A HAND HAS THE RIGHT TO ASK TO SEE ANY PLAYERS HAND before it gets mixed into the muck.Just because you will get bad looks doesn't mean the rule is different.It goes like this.The guy bets, 4 players call. The guy who bets has to expose his hand, no one else should expose their hand until he does. He CAN muck it if he wants, he does not HAVE to show, but if someone asks before it gets mixed into the muck, then they HAVE to expose the cards.Next, the player to his right has the same decision, he can muck or show. If the bettor showed the nuts, he can muck, but again, if someone asks, he has to show.Etc, until you read the last caller. He has the same decision.After he makes his decision, all of the exposed hands are ranked by the poker hand rankings, and the best hand wins, the others are mucked.It's called a showdown, and that is how it works.- Zach

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

Stop being a ****.

A lot of kids online use words that they should know will be edited into ****.

It is BLACK AND WHITE. If someone bets, and is called, OR, the hand checks around, then ANY PLAYER WHO WAS DEALT A HAND HAS THE RIGHT TO ASK TO SEE ANY PLAYERS HAND before it gets mixed into the muck.

That's true. That doesn't mean that the dealer will do it. It also doesn't mean that the other player won't toss the cards into the muck, at which point, the dealer may not show the hand.

Next, the player to his right has the same decision, he can muck or show. If the bettor showed the nuts, he can muck, but again, if someone asks, he has to show.

He doesn't have to show. He can flick his cards into the muck, and the dealer may not show the hand.

After he makes his decision, all of the exposed hands are ranked by the poker hand rankings, and the best hand wins, the others are mucked.It's called a showdown, and that is how it works.

You say this as if you're trying to teach me something. I know the rules, and floor people occasionally thank me for correcting the mistakes that dealers make. I think that you misinterpreted one of my previous posts. I agree with you that a called better in a hand that shown down is supposed to show his cards if anyone at the table asks, but it, quite often, doesn't happen.

[Zach6668 513]

My point is that just because it doesn't happen very often at a live table, which I agree with, it does not take away from the fact that it is the rule. That is all.[/thread]

[Actuary 3]

My point is that just because it doesn't happen very often at a live table, which I agree with, it does not take away from the fact that it is the rule. That is all.[/thread]

[thread] "tag" [/thread]

[navybuttons 15]

okay. there are so many discussions going on in this thread it's amazing.i've already responded to the first which was the politeness of asking to see another players hand.second: a scenario where player A bets and is called. player A then mucks. the dealer starts pushing the pot to player B who throws his cards in the muck. some in this thread have said that at certain casinos he cannot win. my question is what do they do with the pot.i have never seen this rule enacted and i can't imagine a scenario where it was. actuary: you asked in regards to a habitual bluffer. yes, you paid to see that information. but don't think of it like this. there are going to be times where he bluffs with nothing on the flop and hits runner runner and then you will see his cards. there are going to be times where he semi-bluffs and hits and then you will see his cards. i just feel that this is the information that you should be prevy to (not a mucked hand).as a matter of fact, if i call and someone mucks, and someone else asks to see the hand i plead that they don't. i've had drunk mucker effers turn over straights when they were calling for the low.

[Scott3705 0]

Wrong

Elaborate?Here's my experiences1/2 at the trop:River action: i bet, get reraised and I call. Player mucks, I go to push cards to muck, dealer tells me my hand must be exposed. (First time I became aware of the rule)1/2 at Borgota:River action:Player bets, other player tanks forever and calls. Player mucks, other player is forced to table hand.2/5 at Bellagio:River action: Player bets, I call. Player instamucks, I try to throw my hand in the muck and dealer has a hemmorage trying to save my hand from being dead and turns over my hand.Come of think of it. Had the same action at the monte Carlo as well. I haven't played all that many casinos, so maybe the rule is different. After becoming aware of DEALERS forcing me to show my hand, I have not noticed a player being able to muck a hand at showdown and still have the pot awarded to him. Some one, instead of telling me I'm wrong, (Which clearly since so many think I am, I and the dealers that were at these tables might be. ) point out a rule or something.

second: a scenario where player A bets and is called. player A then mucks. the dealer starts pushing the pot to player B who throws his cards in the muck. some in this thread have said that at certain casinos he cannot win. my question is what do they do with the pot.

I have no idea. I've never seen Player B actually muck.

[AcesUp46 0]

You do have a right to see a hand during showdown if it hasn't touched the muck yet. However, it is really poor etiquette and the dealer/cardroom has the right to revoke your privilege to see.

[pragtyro 0]

Some one, instead of telling me I'm wrong, (Which clearly since so many think I am, I and the dealers that were at these tables might be. ) point out a rule or something.

You don't prove that rules DON"T exist, you prove that they DO. They don't by default. If the rules say you show your hand then you show you hand. If you don't they don't need a rule to say you don't, you just don't.And in the case of you being the only unmucked hand, you don't.

[Scott3705 0]

You don't prove that rules DON"T exist, you prove that they DO. They don't by default. If the rules say you show your hand then you show you hand. If you don't they don't need a rule to say you don't, you just don't.And in the case of you being the only unmucked hand, you don't.

I've been forced to show my "last remaining unmucked" hand in the past.Edit: Given the bolded part, where is the rule that says Player does not have to reveal hand ...... etc. Or better yet would be a rule dealing with the conditions for awarding a pot? Is that where you're getting "And in the case of you being the only unmucked hand, you don't." Could you post a link to where you found that?

[Zach6668 513]

second: a scenario where player A bets and is called. player A then mucks. the dealer starts pushing the pot to player B who throws his cards in the muck. some in this thread have said that at certain casinos he cannot win. my question is what do they do with the pot.

The last person with live cards wins the pot.It's not hard people! The people who say he cannot win are wrong.

[halo291 0]

The last person with live cards wins the pot.It's not hard people! The people who say he cannot win are wrong.

Ok since I started this mess...lol...Sorry...I got my answer. I can ask but "paying to see them" might not be worth the hassle...I got it!!!AS far as the last part of this topic that it got focused on. Where I play Winstar in Oklahoma and every tournament I have watched on TV the last live hand if all are mucked or folded does not have to Table his /her cards to win. That should be a no brainer for all of us if we have watched any tv at all. WHich BTW includes the Bellagio but may be different in play at thier card room I dont know Ive never played poker there when Ive been.Thanks to everyone's input to my question