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Would You Ever Fold Getting 15 To 1?


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This happened just a few minutes ago in my $11+R tourney on Stars, and I'm left baffled... even if you're on air, would you still lay down any hand getting over 15 to 1 on the river?Was this a chip dump?PokerStars Game #6449751832: Tournament #32353955, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/09/28 - 12:25:28 (ET)Table '32353955 4' 9-max Seat #9 is the buttonSeat 1: sh00vf (26770 in chips) Seat 2: Yankeeswon (11846 in chips) Seat 3: MASONPOKER (4160 in chips) Seat 4: PokeHerPros (20781 in chips) Seat 5: pbrsquad (8100 in chips) Seat 6: Cuda Ducks (11730 in chips) Seat 7: pipfugl (3233 in chips) Seat 8: ESEEL (4945 in chips) Seat 9: NTRdlrum (4304 in chips) sh00vf: posts small blind 75Yankeeswon: posts big blind 150*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to PokeHerPros [2h 3c]MASONPOKER: folds PokeHerPros: folds pbrsquad: folds Cuda Ducks: folds pipfugl: folds NTRdlrum said, "I always do that"ESEEL: folds NTRdlrum said, "now dead"NTRdlrum: raises 300 to 450sh00vf: folds Yankeeswon: calls 300*** FLOP *** [4d Kc 5h]Yankeeswon: checks NTRdlrum: bets 300Yankeeswon: calls 300*** TURN *** [4d Kc 5h] [5s]Yankeeswon: checks NTRdlrum: bets 450Yankeeswon: raises 750 to 1200NTRdlrum: calls 750*** RIVER *** [4d Kc 5h 5s] [3s]Yankeeswon: bets 1800NTRdlrum: raises 554 to 2354 and is all-inYankeeswon: folds PokeHerPros said, "wtf"NTRdlrum collected 7575 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 7575 | Rake 0 Board [4d Kc 5h 5s 3s]Seat 1: sh00vf (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 2: Yankeeswon (big blind) folded on the RiverSeat 3: MASONPOKER folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: PokeHerPros folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: pbrsquad folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: Cuda Ducks folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: pipfugl folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 8: ESEEL folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: NTRdlrum (button) collected (7575)

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i thought this was a preflop question. of course you can fold on the river, even getting 100:1.i know its a low-limit tourney, but the all-in player is still aware he's offering amazing odds to call. i wouldn't fold a king there, but if the other guy is bluffing, it'd be stupid to call just because he has good "pot odds."fwiw, a guy folded his big blind to me in an O8 sit and go the other day getting better than 7:1 preflop, and we weren't colluding. you'd be surprised at some people.

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First off, it was a very bad bet. If he was totally bluffing though with something like 7 high, yeah he could fold. Just extra chips he can save for the next hand. Unlikely chip dumping, probably just very bad play.

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First off, it was a very bad bet. If he was totally bluffing though with something like 7 high, yeah he could fold. Just extra chips he can save for the next hand. Unlikely chip dumping, probably just very bad play.
are you high ?*** TURN *** [4d Kc 5h] [5s]Yankeeswon: checks NTRdlrum: bets 450Yankeeswon: raises 750 to 1200 NTRdlrum: calls 750*** RIVER *** [4d Kc 5h 5s] [3s]Yankeeswon: bets 1800 NTRdlrum: raises 554 to 2354 and is all-inhe reraised on the turn and still got a call...then leads out huge on the river...gimme a break. The more I look at this hh the more its obviously a chip dump. Email support immediately
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You can fold, it sucks, but when you miss a draw and lead out to try and steal and the guy moves in, you can fold your busted draw. You look like a dumbass, but you don't look nearly as stupid then when you call and show a 10 high busted flush draw.Alpha

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First off, it was a very bad bet. If he was totally bluffing though with something like 7 high, yeah he could fold. Just extra chips he can save for the next hand. Unlikely chip dumping, probably just very bad play.
i dunno, you've gotta bet a big enough amount that the guy knows he's committing everything. maybe he could've bet 1600, but if he can get the same information for 1800 instead of 2300 chips, it makes sense to do so, no?also, i was cracking up at the 92 hand from the 6-handed PL event the other day.
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There was no flush draw out there, and any straight draw with the exception of the gutshot 6/78 got there or at least made a pair... The hand makes no sense as played out. Even with a pair of 3s, you wouldn't call getting 15 to 1? Your opponent needs to have ace high just once in fifteen for you to break even.Maybe I'm just reading too much into a terrible play.

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are you high ?*** TURN *** [4d Kc 5h] [5s]Yankeeswon: checks NTRdlrum: bets 450Yankeeswon: raises 750 to 1200 NTRdlrum: calls 750*** RIVER *** [4d Kc 5h 5s] [3s]Yankeeswon: bets 1800 NTRdlrum: raises 554 to 2354 and is all-inhe reraised on the turn and still got a call...then leads out huge on the river...gimme a break. The more I look at this hh the more its obviously a chip dump. Email support immediately
i disagree completely. Looks like a river continuation bet, trying to represent trip 5's. Kind of dumb, but that was probably what he was thinking.
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Chip dumping in the first hour of a rebuy tourney has got to be one of the dumbest things someone could ever do. If this is dumping, it's just another example of how stupid cheaters are.The beauty of Pstars is that you can email them the HH along with the tourney info and your concerns and they will do an indepth investigation. If you haven't done it yet, email them right now! When cheaters are exposed it only helps all of us.

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It was the second hour, not the first. Apparently it's a full moon today, because they're out in force (same tourney).PokerStars Game #6450099443: Tournament #32353955, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/09/28 - 13:13:12 (ET)Table '32353955 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the buttonSeat 1: PokeHerPros (23127 in chips) Seat 2: BTwigg (2968 in chips) Seat 3: Idaho Al (12040 in chips) Seat 4: Magnusaa (30200 in chips) Seat 5: GreenMan1 (3075 in chips) Seat 6: Andy134 (11165 in chips) Seat 7: marc69 (12270 in chips) Seat 8: Ca$inoMagic (15636 in chips) Seat 9: Hunt2live (16892 in chips) PokeHerPros: posts the ante 25BTwigg: posts the ante 25Idaho Al: posts the ante 25Magnusaa: posts the ante 25GreenMan1: posts the ante 25Andy134: posts the ante 25marc69: posts the ante 25Ca$inoMagic: posts the ante 25Hunt2live: posts the ante 25PokeHerPros: posts small blind 200BTwigg: posts big blind 400*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to PokeHerPros [Ts Ac]Idaho Al: folds Magnusaa: folds GreenMan1: raises 800 to 1200Andy134: folds marc69: folds Ca$inoMagic: folds Hunt2live: folds PokeHerPros: folds BTwigg: raises 1743 to 2943 and is all-inGreenMan1: calls 1743*** FLOP *** [8d 3d 7s]PokeHerPros said, "..."BTwigg: i knew my hand was live*** TURN *** [8d 3d 7s] [4c]*** RIVER *** [8d 3d 7s 4c] [6h]*** SHOW DOWN ***BTwigg: shows [2d 5s] (a straight, Four to Eight)GreenMan1: shows [Ad 9s] (high card Ace)BTwigg collected 6311 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 6311 | Rake 0 Board [8d 3d 7s 4c 6h]Seat 1: PokeHerPros (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 2: BTwigg (big blind) showed [2d 5s] and won (6311) with a straight, Four to EightSeat 3: Idaho Al folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Magnusaa folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: GreenMan1 showed [Ad 9s] and lost with high card AceSeat 6: Andy134 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: marc69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 8: Ca$inoMagic folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: Hunt2live (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)I'm pretty sure villain's quote ("BTwigg: i knew my hand was live") needs to go in the You Know You're Playing a Fish When... thread. Good lord, it's a minefield out there this morning.

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Looks like 7-8 to me, trying to represent the 5 on the turn. I don't think it's necessarily cheating or even a horrible play. Sometimes your bluff goes wrong and you have to save a few chips.

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Looks like 7-8 to me, trying to represent the 5 on the turn. I don't think it's necessarily cheating or even a horrible play. Sometimes your bluff goes wrong and you have to save a few chips.
His river bet was the horrible play...
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are you high ?*** TURN *** [4d Kc 5h] [5s]Yankeeswon: checks NTRdlrum: bets 450Yankeeswon: raises 750 to 1200 NTRdlrum: calls 750*** RIVER *** [4d Kc 5h 5s] [3s]Yankeeswon: bets 1800 NTRdlrum: raises 554 to 2354 and is all-inhe reraised on the turn and still got a call...then leads out huge on the river...gimme a break. The more I look at this hh the more its obviously a chip dump. Email support immediately
I wish I was high but thats the type of play you see in 11 dollar tournament. People do re raise on the turn then lead on the river completely bluffing all the time. It's just a bad play.There are very little draws out there and yes there is a slight possibility of collusion but it's highly doubtful.
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I've seen situations like this before and I think most of the time, it's just really bad players. I've seen players open-farrelling (fold when they can check) at the river after leading big on flop and turn, possibly to avoid letting others see that they were betting with garbage.

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i dunno, you've gotta bet a big enough amount that the guy knows he's committing everything. maybe he could've bet 1600, but if he can get the same information for 1800 instead of 2300 chips, it makes sense to do so, no?also, i was cracking up at the 92 hand from the 6-handed PL event the other day.
lol as you can see from my PP name and avatar that the 92 really is my favorite hand :club:
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I've seen situations like this before and I think most of the time, it's just really bad players. I've seen players open-farrelling (fold when they can check) at the river after leading big on flop and turn, possibly to avoid letting others see that they were betting with garbage.
Yep, I see people making stupid bluffs all the time if they feel like you haven't been betting strongly enough, or if they think the pot is big enough. My weirdest hand lately, I raise to 4X preflop, everyone folds except the BB, who calls. Flop comes, BB acts first.... and folds! What? I had missed the flop completely, and picked up a pot without betting.I regularly see people using up all their time deciding whether to call a $200 bet in a $2500 pot, just because the $200 was an all-in. Do they think they have to go all-in, too?So yeah, the OP could be chip dumping, but more likely just another of the thousands of idiots that makes playing online profitable.
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I was playing 5-10NL cap game on full tilt today. I had TPTK the whole way and we both had $290 in going to the river and I bet the last $10 to cap it and the guy folded to me. He was on a flush draw from the flop and missed it. I still think if I were him I would have called $10 in a $600 pot just for information purposes. I wasn't upset though.

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