You're Joking, Right?

[mtdesmoines 2]

Richard Nixon was the best poker player president we've ever had. So it's good to see that you accept that he was a good president too.I am amazed at how quickly people want to believe that poor speaking skills equals ignorance.Bush doesn't speak well, but makes tough desicions with the goal of protecting the American people. 5 years later there hasn't been another attack terrorist on America soil.Clinton spoke very well, and made decisions that hurt America's safety ( think China ). After giving Bin Hiding his best shot ( 100 cruise missles ) Bin Ladin says America is weak and begins planning 9/11.After Bush's best shot, Bin ladin is in a cave scared everytime a plane flys overhead.Give me a poor speaker that kicks butt over a poll driven good speaker that let Bin ladin get away because he didn't want to look bad if there were problems.The rest of the world's opinion is so irrelevant that it's comical.

I have to agree with 99.99999% of this. (I didn't care for the spaces by each paren).

Wow Daniel,This guy would love to have you and everyone you love murdered on the spot yet you say "GEEEE WHAT A GREAT SPEAKER. HES NOT SO BAD AFTER ALL. BUSH STUTTERS!!!"

Again, something I agree with.

[DonkSlayer 1]

I do think brushing up on social and speaking skills is very important for any public figure. Not that I dislike Bush.If you don't believe me, try dealing with someone on a business-level that speaks in ebonics or very broken, lazy English.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

if you dont like the US or dont agree of how things are run and think they could be better just pm me...ill buy you a 1 way ticket to the country of your choosing the rest is up to you

Cool free plane tickets!I have always wanted to go to New Zealand. I will find my own way back thanks. Oh and can you make it business class?

[mtdesmoines 2]

1) well, we'll see how comical it is when WWIII starts due to the US being unable/unwilling to repay its enormous debt to China. 2) The rest of the world is progressing at an unbelievable pace, and moving towards greatest standards of living for all people. The US is single-handedly holding back the global standard of living, feeling that because they are currently ahead of many countries, it isn't a big deal that they're falling behind.3) edit - i should mention that this is not really an attack on Balloon Guy, who generally seems to be aware of the issues. In my opinion, his views are extremely dangerous, but at least he accepts certain things about the US that most people ignorantly deny, and defends them. One of the dangers of such a view though is that you may be wrong, and never realize it. Bush has probably done more to put the US in danger relative to China than Clinton. Not everything is as direct as it seems, and having a growing, uncompromising, trillion dollar debt to a powerful country is generally not a good strategy.

1) This is the Clinton legacy -- our twisted relationship with China. It was the Clinton adminstration that gave China MFN status. 2) PARTS of the world, and limited ones at that. I have to be honest, I think India is more of a long-term competitor than China. But you are right on about the trends. 3) China knows we can kick their ***. If it was any different, they'd be dropping bombs on us as we speak.

[aaronj 0]

going after someones speaking skills is what i like to refer to as "scraping the bottom of the barrel" who cares..as for the tickets you must stay at ur location for 6 years before your are able to returngas is now $2.15 here in the suny state of fl...awesome news!

[mtdesmoines 2]

1if someone owed you an enormous, growing amount of money, and did not seem interested in ever paying you back, you'd be cool with it? what if everyone else thought you were right and they were wrong? you don't think you'd do something about it?2Yes, the US is holding back other countries. That should be extremely obvious. Then again, its not like you impose or ignore economic and military sanctions at will or anything. oops.3i'm pretty sure i admitted i was biased, i oversimplify and somewhat ignorant. I also respect that you defend things that other people pretend don't exist. Try to think about what it would be like if every country acted with the unilaterality that the US does. Doesn't work too well.

1) you so so so so seriously misunderstand the function of money, it's difficult to know where to begin except to say that they are only looking for debt service 2) I don't know how it can be so extremely obvious -- I don't know what you're talking about. The US send brazillions of dollars overseas in foreign aid. This thread is reason one for stopping it.3) every country does act unilaterally. that's why we have countries. that's what countries are.

If anybody would like to gaze into a crystal ball and see the future of America, go grab a history book on the fall of the Roman Empire. There was no precedence for a society of that size and complexity, and at the time, members of the empire thought that they were invincible from previous historical governmental collapses. Turns out they were wrong. I'm hearing this same hubris from people, not only in this thread, but on TV, radio, in person, etc. The fall of Rome was nothing compared to what will happen when America collapses. I just hope I'm not around to experience it.

Absolutely, America can fall. But can you imagine the world chaos with no America? Do you really believe that the Euros, Chinese and Islamos will all carve up a post-American world peacefully? Good Lord.

I think if the US split up, it would be into a Liberal Northeast, a conservative South, West texas through Arizona would eventually fall to Mexico, California and Nevada would be their own country, Washington/Oregon would form a union, and the Midwest would just be a loose confederation. Jerry Falwell would move to North Dakota. Thoughts?

LOL --- just LOL ...

[Dubya_PhiDelt 0]

Daniel, how can you love Jesus but not me? Frankly folks, we're talking about terrorism here. I will not bow to terrorists. Mahmoud Ahmanedijad (or whatever) sponsors terrorism.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

as for the tickets you must stay at ur location for 6 years before your are able to return

Damn there’s always a catch!

[aaronj 0]

why would iran think that they could wipe isreal off the map anyhow?israel have nuclear weapons but do not confirm or deny that in part because they will lose US aid because we do not support nuclear states...israel just purched 2 second strike nuclear subs about 1 month ago, they now have 1st and second strike capabilites...for iran to try anything now or 20 years later would be suicide

[burgerman 0]

I think it would be a good idea if folks took a step back. DN simply expressed his views about the Iranian President's speaking style and his discontent with US policies under President Bush. It's a free country and everyone can express their opinions. DN values self-control in politicians because it is crucial to making reads in poker. I think he believes it would be tougher to read the Iranian than President Bush. As to his thoughts on US policy, he's entitled to them and there's no right or wrong answer on this subject. We settle these debates with elections and not guns -- thank goodness! Best --Burgerman

[mtdesmoines 2]

As to his thoughts on US policy, he's entitled to them and there's no right or wrong answer on this subject.

I disagree.

[mrdannyg 274]

3) China knows we can kick their ***. If it was any different, they'd be dropping bombs on us as we speak.

didn't mean to imply otherwise. but they may be able and/or willing to do some damage in the not-too-distant future.

1) you so so so so seriously misunderstand the function of money, it's difficult to know where to begin except to say that they are only looking for debt service 2) I don't know how it can be so extremely obvious -- I don't know what you're talking about. The US send brazillions of dollars overseas in foreign aid. This thread is reason one for stopping it.3) every country does act unilaterally. that's why we have countries. that's what countries are.

1 - i doubt it. i realize they are looking for debt service, as opposed to complete repayment. my point is that not only is the deficit continuously growing, just balancing the budget seems to be a non-issue. lending rates will continue to worsen as the debt becomes increasingly unmanageable.2 - yes they do, and it has fantastic effects. they do very little for infrastructure though. nevertheless, i'm certainly not complaining about the billions they spend in aid.3 - no, they don't. that's why we have things like the EU and UN. the US acts unilterally, for their own benefit. other countries act for their own benefit, and the greater benefit of everyone. other countries act, knowing that other countries benefitting, benefits them as well.While the US is building its empire, basically every other country is coming together in a global environment, to increase the average standard of living of all people, fully aware that a nation's borders are meaningless lines.

[Oneeydjaq 0]

First off, I am an American, and quite proud of it, although my pride does not stem from how our government has governed this century. I am well aware that the United States is the greatest country in the world to live in, and in no way am I saying things are better elsewhere. Having said that, my pride stems from what our country has done and accomplished since declaring its independence, with a few exceptions. Right now happens to be one of those times. I find it both hypocritical and appauling that Americans berate people who's opinions differ from their own. The foundation of this country is built on the ideal that people are free to believe what they want and voice that opinon, and should be encouraged to do so. Moreover, we are meant to question our leaders and their decisions and hold them accountable. This point is a touchy one in that it raises the question what is the "right thing to do". The first question to answer this for me is, why do these leaders come to power? In the case of Germany, their country was put into a depression post WWI at the hands of many European nations, and many of the citizens were suffering, along comes Hitler, who is charismatic, eductaed, talks to them of reclaiming their greatness. People in times of desperation are easily led astray. Many similar factors are in place now for Iranians. Similarly, so were many colonists led by our leaders during the revolution. If you were a citizen of Great Britain during that time period I am sure you would have supported them coming over to the Colonies to protect their interests against rebels. I am also fairly sure, you now would say that that rebelion was a good thing, at least for you. Therein lies the contradiction. Who is to say in the long term that so and so leader or leaders are right or wrong? I am sure that the people of Iran are behind their leader at least as much as we are behind ours, 45%+/-3%. The next question is whether or not it is our duty to police the other countries of the world every time we disagree with their interests. It is important not to let emotional factors play a role in decisions. The other major factor that influences the masses opinions and decisions is the media. Here is a shocker, not everything you read or see in the news is 100% accurate. As a global society, WWIII will be inevitable until people can agree to disagree. Until Islamic radicals and Israelites can agree to both lay claim to the same lands, which in reality are really no more ones than the other's. Until the US can agree to allow other nations to live their way of life in return for them allowing us to do the same. As it is now, the US has taken the stance that we are the playground bully and anyone who picks a fight for whatever reason is going to get their fight. In my opinion this was not very mature on the playground and it is not in the political global arena either. Is Bush doing a good/bad job? I don't think Bush is doing either. I think he is one man in an administration that has done some good things and some bad things. The real problem is not with the president or with the administration. It lies with the people who allow them to invoke their will on others in a hypocritical manner. The real problem is the US citizens who sit idly by and complain about the administration as they continue to do things they do not approve of, who point fingers at terrorists and say they are to blame, who stereotype muslims and cant realize that they do the same thing to us. The problem is that in the world there has always been a bully, and there always will be. If you are looking for someone to blame or someone to point the finger to, point to the human race, as it is our human nature that will be our undoing.

[mtdesmoines 2]

didn't mean to imply otherwise. but they may be able and/or willing to do some damage in the not-too-distant future.1 - i doubt it. i realize they are looking for debt service, as opposed to complete repayment. my point is that not only is the deficit continuously growing, just balancing the budget seems to be a non-issue. lending rates will continue to worsen as the debt becomes increasingly unmanageable.2 - yes they do, and it has fantastic effects. they do very little for infrastructure though. nevertheless, i'm certainly not complaining about the billions they spend in aid.3 - no, they don't. that's why we have things like the EU and UN. the US acts unilterally, for their own benefit. other countries act for their own benefit, and the greater benefit of everyone. other countries act, knowing that other countries benefitting, benefits them as well.While the US is building its empire, basically every other country is coming together in a global environment, to increase the average standard of living of all people, fully aware that a nation's borders are meaningless lines.

1) a robust domestic economy based on PRODUCTION and not some silly assed SERVICES will cure that. China won't be happy, but ... well **** China. 2) the least anyone in the non-US world could do is recognize that fact and say ****ing thank you, but that seems to be totally beyond the realm of possibility3) YES, they do. The EU is constantly in uproar because the "members" are acting unilaterally. The UN ... you have to be kidding. If the UN had been doing 0.00001% of its job, the US wouldn't have had to go into Iraq. You make no sense in the rest of your #3, BTW. The last bit about 'every other country coming together in a global environment' is laughable. Our ability to communicate and see what others are doing has had tremendous benefits, but it's also created tremendous upheaval and struggle in the world. There are so many conflicts going on right now that it's barely possible to be aware of them all.

[mrdannyg 274]

First off, I am an American, and quite proud of it,

now that is a great f'ing post

[LITTLEPOPPA 0]

I think it would be a good idea if folks took a step back. DN simply expressed his views about the Iranian President's speaking style and his discontent with US policies under President Bush. It's a free country and everyone can express their opinions. DN values self-control in politicians because it is crucial to making reads in poker. I think he believes it would be tougher to read the Iranian than President Bush. As to his thoughts on US policy, he's entitled to them and there's no right or wrong answer on this subject. We settle these debates with elections and not guns -- thank goodness! Best --Burgerman

Burger I understand your point.. but for him to act like this guy was "ok" based on the way he said something without actually listening to what was being said to me is silly. its like reading a book about advocating terrorism and world extinction and saying the author must be a pretty good guy because he has excellent grammar and also seems like a decent guy based on his picture in the book jacket....daniel didnt say it was AMAZING that that guy could be so calm while saying he wanted to eradicate a race....I dont really think daniel listed to the speech....what this guy said and not how he said it is the issue here...it is clear that his edge in poker and lack of school gave him certain ways to "read" people and while they may be useful at the poker table it seems that outside the poker room it doesnt really work,,, nothing about that speech, if u read it or listed to what was said made him a decent guybottom line is because daniel is anti bush he decided to skim over what was truly said and as long as it criticized bush it was ok, especially since he said it calmly...lolif ur gong to say in your (daniels) opinion bush since his reelection has made the most damaging mistakes a leader can make....dont u think daniel should mention them....but he doesnt-is it the USA not going to Kyoto to be involved in global warming ect...I agree this might be the biggest mistake our government has madeis it not allowing another terroist attack on US soil since september 11th and making some tough decisions to assure that....is it invading iraq?? fine if u want to list it, just explain how it is a big damaging mistake???hussein is facing war crimes for murdering hundreds of thousands in an independent court...i think most people decided who they wanted to lead their country in the war against terrorism and whether they liked bush or not he was the choice...would u sleep well at night with gore or kerry at the helm...not in this environment...keep watching farenheit 911 on weekends and realize that if that movie actually showed both sides to the story, it would possibly be the best film of our time....but why spend time being objective, when u already have an opinion...

[mrdannyg 274]

1) a robust domestic economy based on PRODUCTION and not some silly assed SERVICES will cure that. China won't be happy, but ... well **** China. 2) the least anyone in the non-US world could do is recognize that fact and say ****ing thank you, but that seems to be totally beyond the realm of possibility3) YES, they do. The EU is constantly in uproar because the "members" are acting unilaterally. The UN ... you have to be kidding. If the UN had been doing 0.00001% of its job, You make no sense in the rest of your #3, BTW. The last bit about 'every other country coming together in a global environment' is laughable. Our ability to communicate and see what others are doing has had tremendous benefits, but it's also created tremendous upheaval and struggle in the world. There are so many conflicts going on right now that it's barely possible to be aware of them all.

1 - i don't get it. the point is, no US government (taking its lead from the population) seems to give a rats *** about servicing its debt. its debt is huge and growing. this will become a very large problem in the very near future.2 - what do you want, a cookie? most other countries who are able donate time and money, with an effort towards building the target country to one day become developed and self-sufficient. the US sends 1% of their GDP and wants a friggin parade.3 - the UN and others cannot act efficiently because of the US. it is impossible to judge their potential efficiency when they are not allowed to handle situations that the US originally agreed to let them handle.Your other points don't seem to bear any basis. I'm not saying the rest of the world is a big, happy, socialist family, but they are working towards global good. This is not an issue for the US. Most Americans and supporters do not even deny this, which is a valid stance. To pretend it does not exist is ignorant.

the US wouldn't have had to go into Iraq.

i'yep, good thing you guys stopped all those WMDs.

[LITTLEPOPPA 0]

Burger I understand your point.. but for him to act like this guy was "ok" based on the way he said something without actually listening to what was being said to me is silly. its like reading a book about advocating terrorism and world extinction and saying the author must be a pretty good guy because he has excellent grammar and also seems like a decent guy based on his picture in the book jacket....daniel didnt say it was AMAZING that that guy could be so calm while saying he wanted to eradicate a race....I dont really think daniel listed to the speech....what this guy said and not how he said it is the issue here...it is clear that his edge in poker and lack of school gave him certain ways to "read" people and while they may be useful at the poker table it seems that outside the poker room it doesnt really work,,, nothing about that speech, if u read it or listed to what was said made him a decent guybottom line is because daniel is anti bush he decided to skim over what was truly said and as long as it criticized bush it was ok, especially since he said it calmly...lolif ur gong to say in your (daniels) opinion bush since his reelection has made the most damaging mistakes a leader can make....dont u think daniel should mention them....but he doesnt-is it the USA not going to Kyoto to be involved in global warming ect...I agree this might be the biggest mistake our government has madeis it not allowing another terroist attack on US soil since september 11th and making some tough decisions to assure that....is it invading iraq?? fine if u want to list it, just explain how it is a big damaging mistake???hussein is facing war crimes for murdering hundreds of thousands in an independent court...i think most people decided who they wanted to lead their country in the war against terrorism and whether they liked bush or not he was the choice...would u sleep well at night with gore or kerry at the helm...not in this environment...keep watching farenheit 911 on weekends and realize that if that movie actually showed both sides to the story, it would possibly be the best film of our time....but why spend time being objective, when u already have an opinion...

burger..by the way anytime I said "you" i was not referring to u, i was referring to daniel..I have no issues with what u say about him..my issues were with what he didnt say...he has a right to comment but i u are going to say someone has made terrible mistakes..list them...if u are going to say someone is fair such as the leader of iran...list why...just because he hates bush doesnt make him a good guy...

[mtdesmoines 2]

1 - i don't get it. the point is, no US government (taking its lead from the population) seems to give a rats *** about servicing its debt. its debt is huge and growing. this will become a very large problem in the very near future.2 - what do you want, a cookie? most other countries who are able donate time and money, with an effort towards building the target country to one day become developed and self-sufficient. the US sends 1% of their GDP and wants a friggin parade.3 - the UN and others cannot act efficiently because of the US. it is impossible to judge their potential efficiency when they are not allowed to handle situations that the US originally agreed to let them handle.4) Your other points don't seem to bear any basis. I'm not saying the rest of the world is a big, happy, socialist family, but they are working towards global good. This is not an issue for the US. Most Americans and supporters do not even deny this, which is a valid stance. To pretend it does not exist is ignorant.i'yep, good thing you guys stopped all those WMDs.

1) we've heard the national debt hoohah for generations now. simple bursts of true productivity and the resultant creation of wealth are the cures for national debt. problem is, are we really going to do what it takes to create a new burst of productivity? that's what I'm worried about. 2) yeah, actually I *DO* want a frickin cookie. I believe American philanthropy throughout the world is TREMENDOUSLY undervalued. most anti-US bigots would have you believe that we do NOTHING to help people, when the truth is that we are the world's single largest source of aid. as much as the rest of the planet combined. So STFU. Yeah, we DESERVE a ****ing cookie. 3) non-sequiter -- the UN is a dead letter. Another thing costing the US upwards of $2 billion a year. And you don't even say thanks. **** you. 4) most of the world is NOT working towards global good. It just isn't.

[Balloon guy 158]

why would iran think that they could wipe isreal off the map anyhow?israel have nuclear weapons but do not confirm or deny that in part because they will lose US aid because we do not support nuclear states...israel just purched 2 second strike nuclear subs about 1 month ago, they now have 1st and second strike capabilites...for iran to try anything now or 20 years later would be suicide

That's page two of the "how to fight a war" handbook of the Muslim world dude.

.i'yep, good thing you guys stopped all those WMDs.

Got the Libyan's WMDs without a fight.

[burgerman 0]

Poppa -- I don't quarrel with your points. Public figures like DN should be careful that they don't endorse the view points of those advocating despicable acts. I didn't take DN's comments to do that but others did. As to President Bush, I reluctantly voted for him twice. He did a great job rallying the country after 9/11. However, the jury is still out on the US response to the terroist threat and the war in Iraq. I wholeheartedly support our troops and am thankful for the sacrifices they are making on the country's behalf. My point is only that DN has a right to his opinion about President Bush and the right to publish it here. Only time will tell if what we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq are prudent responses. I think going into Afghanistan was correct. I initially thought the war in Iraq was correct. However, without WMD's and a national will to occupy the country (as we did in Germany and Japan) until law and order is restored and the country has the essential services to function, I have doubts about the wisdom of continuing our present policies there. However, unlike some, I do trust our leaders to do what they think is best to protect us. "Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." Winston Churchill.Best --Burgerman

[Oziumrules 0]

America has to do whatever it can do to protect Israel (even though Israel is quite capable of protecting themselves) we have an incredible amount of Jewish/Israeli interests in this country. Israel has been hated forever and is surrounded by countries who feel the same way the wacky Iranian feels, they just dont announce it. If we did not have any Israeli interests the USA would not be as hated in the Middle East. I do however support Israel (like the USA)and believe in trying to stabilize the tension in the region. Its unfortunate now with the clusterfu.ck in Iraq and Afganistan that we are many years away from any peace in the Middle East. I pray for the day the innocent people of Israel wont have to worry about a radical extremist strapping a bomb on there backs and detonating it in a pre-school or a shopping mall. I thank God everyday I do not have to live in fear. Israel lives in fear, we do not.

[dino 0]

Yikes, relax dude, I never said that I personally support the guy and his agenda, just that he presents himself much better than I would have ever imagined. Bush, on the other hand, comes off horribly in debates and in public speaking to those outside the U.S. His temper shows in his words and he often seems out of control. The Iranian president did a much better job of seeming in control of his emotions- in other words, he'd crush Bush at the poker table! Wouldn't even be close. I totally understand that anything a politician says has to be taken with several grains of salt. The same things can be said about anything Bush says publicly. He's just so much easier to read when he's lying since many of his lies are so far fetched and the stories he tells to back them up aren't reasonable. "We are there to liberate the people." How does he even say that without busting up laughing? Lastly, the Iranians didn't fly two planes into the Two Towers. You can't just lump a whole group of people together like that, otherwise, there are plenty of nut jobs in the U.S. also that have done some horrible things, a la David Koresh, the Unabomber, etc. Bin Laden is not from Iran. The majority of people in Iran are not radical Muslim terrorists.

I submit that you should have watched Ahmadinejad on CNN with Anderson Cooper instead of 60 mins. The guy was so full of crap it was disgusting, and he got totally pwned by AC. Long and short of it is, the guy lied through his teeth on more than one occasion and wouldn't even admit to making his most famous statements. This guy was elected on an economic platform and now he's bringing his country almost to the brink of war over a petty issue and facing UN economic sanctions. Just prior to Ahmadinejad they had Bill Clinton on and even HE said he was very skeptical of Ahmadinejad and the Iranian nuclear program's validity.BTW, Clinton's words in regard to what would happen if Iran ever used a nuke against the US were scary:"They would have to know that, for as bad as any parts of their history may have been, the best day Iran would ever have, would be the day BEFORE they attacked us. After that, well, it would be a pretty lousy place to live."As to Iran being a sponsor of terrorism - it's pretty much common knowledge that they support Hezbollah and I'm sorry but when you do that you don't get the luxury of saying "well these terrorists weren't the ones who..." A terrorist is a terrorist and a state that supports them gets painted with the same brush. Bush told the world that five years ago.Ahmadinejad is a tool, he's trying to create a legacy for himself by being 'the guy who backed down America' and it's only going to result in a bunch of people being killed - most of them Iranian.

[poker_cutie 0]

DN I love you as a poker player but by doing anything but condeming someone like the Iranian preseident you come off looking so unintelligent and ignorant of the world. He wants to destroy a whole race of people. There can be no defense of him or saying he comes across good in any way, shape or form. Again you such a great guy but saying this made you look like an uninformed, uneducated and rediculous person. I know you are better than that.

Yikes, relax dude, I never said that I personally support the guy and his agenda, just that he presents himself much better than I would have ever imagined. Bush, on the other hand, comes off horribly in debates and in public speaking to those outside the U.S. His temper shows in his words and he often seems out of control. The Iranian president did a much better job of seeming in control of his emotions- in other words, he'd crush Bush at the poker table! Wouldn't even be close. I totally understand that anything a politician says has to be taken with several grains of salt. The same things can be said about anything Bush says publicly. He's just so much easier to read when he's lying since many of his lies are so far fetched and the stories he tells to back them up aren't reasonable. "We are there to liberate the people." How does he even say that without busting up laughing? Lastly, the Iranians didn't fly two planes into the Two Towers. You can't just lump a whole group of people together like that, otherwise, there are plenty of nut jobs in the U.S. also that have done some horrible things, a la David Koresh, the Unabomber, etc. Bin Laden is not from Iran. The majority of people in Iran are not radical Muslim terrorists.

[PairTheBoard 0]

I like hearing Daniel freely speak his mind about whatever is on his mind. Can you imagine what would happen to Daniel's counterpart in Iran if a 60 Minutes Type Bush interview was aired on Iranian TV - which of course would never happen - and Daniel's counterpart Blogged similiar statements over there praising Bush and Slamming the Iranian President? It would be interesting to see what would happen if Daniel picked the most erudite person he knows to speak for him on a political issue in one of his blogs. My bet is the response on these forums would be almost identical.PairTheBoard