A5 In Small Blind, Flop Big Draw

[XXEddie 0]

CO-140BB-30Kevin(SB)-165Kevin is dealt Ad 5dUTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Kevin completes, BB raises to 4, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Kevin calls.flop Kd Qd JcKevin bets 14, BB calls, 2 folds, CO raise to 28, 1 folds, Kevin.....pushes?BB has been buyin in for like 40 and has lost it all in 5 hands. So he could have anything really, big calling station, and im not worried about him. CO had me worred. I think the absolute worse had possible for CO is AK. Since its a limp pot pretty much, I dont think he has a set but I dont think he has two pair, and Im pretty sure of that. But If I push, he might fold QJ. But Ive seen this play before with other drawing hands like TdXd or maybe even JT or JdXd

[Zach6668 513]

Your name is Kevin?Pushing is good. I like it.

[XXEddie 0]

Your name is Kevin?Pushing is good. I like it.

Maybe Kevin is my alias....or maybe Eddie is....the world will never know....muhahahahahaok, to the hand.You sure. Id be much more comfortable if I had a wheel str8 with the flush like T32 with 2 diamonds cause the KQJ flop is liking to hit someone hard

[burbs42 0]

I like pushing too. Maybe call, push-on-turn, which is somewhat confusing and often gives you additional fold equity, and lets you see if the bb can give you some better odds. Folding this big of a draw to a min-raise is silly, but cold calling and checking the turn would be a fairly poor play as you'd lose any possible fold equity.

[Zach6668 513]

I like pushing too. Maybe call, push-on-turn, which is somewhat confusing and often gives you additional fold equity, and lets you see if the bb can give you some better odds. Folding this big of a draw to a min-raise is silly, but cold calling and checking the turn would be a fairly poor play as you'd lose any possible fold equity.

Pushing on the turn, unimproved, is not very good. Our equity plummets. Push when we are a favorite.- Zach

[XXEddie 0]

I pushed, both calledBB has AK, CO had ATs. I hit a diamond on the turn. then CO said this"omg, what a horrible play. Only an idiot pushes allin with just a draw, I could see calling an allin with a draw. But going allin with one is horrible"

[Zach6668 513]

"omg, what a horrible play. Only an idiot pushes allin with just a draw, I could see calling an allin with a draw. But going allin with one is horrible"

BahahahahaahahhahaahahNice.

[Jordan 1]

Well, pushing here really isn't that great given the action and the board.It's just gambling, which is fine..but as far as +EV play, I dont think pushing the flop is one (most of the time). But hey, I suck at math and havn't broken it down, so what do I know?I'd probably just call with the draw and hope to hit...how you've played it, i doubt they'd put you on a flush draw...and I'd want to keep them both in the pot and not push one out drawing to the nuts. Not to mention I'd take a min-raise as complete strength on that kinda board. Very rarely will you be min-raised on those kinda flops and have the guy to be found bluffing.- Jordan

[antistuff 0]

i dont like pushing here. someone will call you and you will be behind.

[Zach6668 513]

What happened is pretty much the 2nd worse scenario in terms of getting it in.Look at what our equity is in this case. Results based thinking, means this play was +EV, since we only need to be > 33.3%:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 903  games	 0.051 secs	17,705  games/secBoard: Kd Qd Jc Dead:  			equity (%)	  win (%)	tie (%) Hand  1:	39.8302 %	  37.43% 	02.40%	  { Ad5d }Hand  2:	04.7250 %	  02.33% 	02.40%	  { AcKs }Hand  3:	55.4448 %	  53.05% 	02.40%	  { AhTh }

Now, if we were to compare our hand vs ATs, and say a set, we have as follows:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt   2,709  games	 0.005 secs   541,800  games/secBoard: Kd Qd Jc Dead:  			equity (%)	  win (%)	tie (%) Hand  1:	28.1285 %	  25.32% 	02.81%	  { Ad5d }Hand  2:	35.8435 %	  35.70% 	00.15%	  { JJ }Hand  3:	36.0281 %	  33.22% 	02.81%	  { AhTh }

In this case, we are losing money, given the action, this is probably pretty likely.- Zach

[No_Neck 0]

What happened is pretty much the 2nd worse scenario in terms of getting it in.Look at what our equity is in this case. Results based thinking, means this play was +EV, since we only need to be > 33.3%:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 903  games	 0.051 secs	17,705  games/secBoard: Kd Qd Jc Dead:  			equity (%)	  win (%)	tie (%) Hand  1:	39.8302 %	  37.43% 	02.40%	  { Ad5d }Hand  2:	04.7250 %	  02.33% 	02.40%	  { AcKs }Hand  3:	55.4448 %	  53.05% 	02.40%	  { AhTh }

Now, if we were to compare our hand vs ATs, and say a set, we have as follows:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt   2,709  games	 0.005 secs   541,800  games/secBoard: Kd Qd Jc Dead:  			equity (%)	  win (%)	tie (%) Hand  1:	28.1285 %	  25.32% 	02.81%	  { Ad5d }Hand  2:	35.8435 %	  35.70% 	00.15%	  { JJ }Hand  3:	36.0281 %	  33.22% 	02.81%	  { AhTh }

In this case, we are losing money, given the action, this is probably pretty likely.- Zach

but they eliminated a set and AT is the worse possible hand that he could have. I think you will get a call from KJ or KQ there too.Also I think pushing might be EV+ if anyone is paying attention to what you are doing. You might get paid off more. Just a thought.

[TheCorporation3 0]

I pushed, both calledBB has AK, CO had ATs. I hit a diamond on the turn. then CO said this"omg, what a horrible play. Only an idiot pushes allin with just a draw, I could see calling an allin with a draw. But going allin with one is horrible"

He had to be joking. It is exactly the opposite of what is true in most cases, lol. Either that, or he is a donk.

[Zach6668 513]

He had to be joking. It is exactly the opposite of what is true in most cases, lol. Either that, or he is a donk.

Thanks for breaking it down, Cpt. Obvious.

[MasterLJ 0]

The main reasons pushing a strong draw is profitable (in given order):1. Fold Equity2. Multi-way callers3. People who over play TPTK or overpair4. HU against a perpetual lagtard blufferIf you don't have one of those 4 scenarios, pushing is bad imo.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Meh, I'm probably folding preflop.

[Zach6668 513]

Meh, I'm probably folding preflop.

Pretty sure it's $200 NL, and the BB min raised to $4.You don't fold preflop.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Pretty sure it's $200 NL, and the BB min raised to $4.You don't fold preflop.

Oh. Not sure If i read the stakes wrong or thought it was a raise to $6. You're right.

[TheCorporation3 0]

Thanks for breaking it down, Cpt. Obvious.

You're such a sweetheart.

[holyfield 0]

just call or reraise i think, gives you all control in the hand.only reason to push i think would be if you thought you could get a fold but with a monster draw like this i dont see why you really need a fold in this spot.