XXEddie 0 Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 CO-140BB-30Kevin(SB)-165Kevin is dealt Ad 5dUTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Kevin completes, BB raises to 4, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Kevin calls.flop Kd Qd JcKevin bets 14, BB calls, 2 folds, CO raise to 28, 1 folds, Kevin.....pushes?BB has been buyin in for like 40 and has lost it all in 5 hands. So he could have anything really, big calling station, and im not worried about him. CO had me worred. I think the absolute worse had possible for CO is AK. Since its a limp pot pretty much, I dont think he has a set but I dont think he has two pair, and Im pretty sure of that. But If I push, he might fold QJ. But Ive seen this play before with other drawing hands like TdXd or maybe even JT or JdXd Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Your name is Kevin?Pushing is good. I like it. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 Your name is Kevin?Pushing is good. I like it.Maybe Kevin is my alias....or maybe Eddie is....the world will never know....muhahahahahaok, to the hand.You sure. Id be much more comfortable if I had a wheel str8 with the flush like T32 with 2 diamonds cause the KQJ flop is liking to hit someone hard Link to post Share on other sites
burbs42 0 Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I like pushing too. Maybe call, push-on-turn, which is somewhat confusing and often gives you additional fold equity, and lets you see if the bb can give you some better odds. Folding this big of a draw to a min-raise is silly, but cold calling and checking the turn would be a fairly poor play as you'd lose any possible fold equity. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I like pushing too. Maybe call, push-on-turn, which is somewhat confusing and often gives you additional fold equity, and lets you see if the bb can give you some better odds. Folding this big of a draw to a min-raise is silly, but cold calling and checking the turn would be a fairly poor play as you'd lose any possible fold equity.Pushing on the turn, unimproved, is not very good. Our equity plummets. Push when we are a favorite.- Zach Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted September 13, 2006 Author Share Posted September 13, 2006 I pushed, both calledBB has AK, CO had ATs. I hit a diamond on the turn. then CO said this"omg, what a horrible play. Only an idiot pushes allin with just a draw, I could see calling an allin with a draw. But going allin with one is horrible" Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 "omg, what a horrible play. Only an idiot pushes allin with just a draw, I could see calling an allin with a draw. But going allin with one is horrible"BahahahahaahahhahaahahNice. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Well, pushing here really isn't that great given the action and the board.It's just gambling, which is fine..but as far as +EV play, I dont think pushing the flop is one (most of the time). But hey, I suck at math and havn't broken it down, so what do I know?I'd probably just call with the draw and hope to hit...how you've played it, i doubt they'd put you on a flush draw...and I'd want to keep them both in the pot and not push one out drawing to the nuts. Not to mention I'd take a min-raise as complete strength on that kinda board. Very rarely will you be min-raised on those kinda flops and have the guy to be found bluffing.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
antistuff 0 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 i dont like pushing here. someone will call you and you will be behind. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 What happened is pretty much the 2nd worse scenario in terms of getting it in.Look at what our equity is in this case. Results based thinking, means this play was +EV, since we only need to be > 33.3%: Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 903 games 0.051 secs 17,705 games/secBoard: Kd Qd Jc Dead: equity (%) win (%) tie (%) Hand 1: 39.8302 % 37.43% 02.40% { Ad5d }Hand 2: 04.7250 % 02.33% 02.40% { AcKs }Hand 3: 55.4448 % 53.05% 02.40% { AhTh } Now, if we were to compare our hand vs ATs, and say a set, we have as follows: Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 2,709 games 0.005 secs 541,800 games/secBoard: Kd Qd Jc Dead: equity (%) win (%) tie (%) Hand 1: 28.1285 % 25.32% 02.81% { Ad5d }Hand 2: 35.8435 % 35.70% 00.15% { JJ }Hand 3: 36.0281 % 33.22% 02.81% { AhTh } In this case, we are losing money, given the action, this is probably pretty likely.- Zach Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 What happened is pretty much the 2nd worse scenario in terms of getting it in.Look at what our equity is in this case. Results based thinking, means this play was +EV, since we only need to be > 33.3%:Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 903 games 0.051 secs 17,705 games/secBoard: Kd Qd Jc Dead: equity (%) win (%) tie (%) Hand 1: 39.8302 % 37.43% 02.40% { Ad5d }Hand 2: 04.7250 % 02.33% 02.40% { AcKs }Hand 3: 55.4448 % 53.05% 02.40% { AhTh } Now, if we were to compare our hand vs ATs, and say a set, we have as follows: Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 2,709 games 0.005 secs 541,800 games/secBoard: Kd Qd Jc Dead: equity (%) win (%) tie (%) Hand 1: 28.1285 % 25.32% 02.81% { Ad5d }Hand 2: 35.8435 % 35.70% 00.15% { JJ }Hand 3: 36.0281 % 33.22% 02.81% { AhTh } In this case, we are losing money, given the action, this is probably pretty likely.- Zach but they eliminated a set and AT is the worse possible hand that he could have. I think you will get a call from KJ or KQ there too.Also I think pushing might be EV+ if anyone is paying attention to what you are doing. You might get paid off more. Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites
TheCorporation3 0 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 I pushed, both calledBB has AK, CO had ATs. I hit a diamond on the turn. then CO said this"omg, what a horrible play. Only an idiot pushes allin with just a draw, I could see calling an allin with a draw. But going allin with one is horrible"He had to be joking. It is exactly the opposite of what is true in most cases, lol. Either that, or he is a donk. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 He had to be joking. It is exactly the opposite of what is true in most cases, lol. Either that, or he is a donk.Thanks for breaking it down, Cpt. Obvious. Link to post Share on other sites
MasterLJ 0 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 The main reasons pushing a strong draw is profitable (in given order):1. Fold Equity2. Multi-way callers3. People who over play TPTK or overpair4. HU against a perpetual lagtard blufferIf you don't have one of those 4 scenarios, pushing is bad imo. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Meh, I'm probably folding preflop. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Meh, I'm probably folding preflop.Pretty sure it's $200 NL, and the BB min raised to $4.You don't fold preflop. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Pretty sure it's $200 NL, and the BB min raised to $4.You don't fold preflop.Oh. Not sure If i read the stakes wrong or thought it was a raise to $6. You're right. Link to post Share on other sites
TheCorporation3 0 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Thanks for breaking it down, Cpt. Obvious.You're such a sweetheart. Link to post Share on other sites
holyfield 0 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 just call or reraise i think, gives you all control in the hand.only reason to push i think would be if you thought you could get a fold but with a monster draw like this i dont see why you really need a fold in this spot. Link to post Share on other sites
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