A Table Full Of Donks Vs. A Table Full Of Decent Players

[invulse 0]

deleted

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

for the last time, you want people at a poker table making horrible plays. The more the bad players, the better.

[....Ian.... 0]

donksAINEC

[rog 0]

donksAINEC

QFMFT

[BeaverStyle 1]

It's simple: Play at the tables where you are more confident in your play, and where you feel you can make money. That is, ofcourse, if you're in it for the money. If you're in it for fun, as a hobby, or as more, you'll have to be able to play against both groups, the donks and the decent players. Great players are great because they can consistantly win against both groups, but if your main goal playing poker is just to make a few extra bucks and have some fun, play where this is easiest for you.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Depends on the game and situation. In LHE, I want a table full of donks AINEC. In NL, I also want the donks, however as long as the blinds aren't escalating quickly and if the stacks are fairly deep I enjoy the challenge of playing against other decent players and trying to outplay them. I wouldn't want to have to play against good players all the time though, because I wouldn't make any money that way.

[kkcountry 0]

if a donk table is -EV, and a decent table is +EV, the big game must be +++++EV, right?

[invulse 0]

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[BigDMcGee 3,352]

You could pretty much cut and paste the OP and put it into the "You know you're playign a donk when " thread, because you know when you're playing a donk, when he says " I just can't beat the bad players" or "I'm wish we were playing 10-20 (20-40, 100-200 ect) then you wouldn't have the suck outs" or what ever. The biggest donkey falacy in the world is thinking that the can't beat teh bad players. When I read your post, I see this " I get a "bad beat" from one of the bad players, go on tilt, and steam my money away."

[SBriand 4]

You could pretty much cut and paste the OP and put it into the "You know you're playign a donk when " thread, because you know when you're playing a donk, when he says " I just can't beat the bad players" or "I'm wish we were playing 10-20 (20-40, 100-200 ect) then you wouldn't have the suck outs" or what ever. The biggest donkey falacy in the world is thinking that the can't beat teh bad players. When I read your post, I see this " I get a "bad beat" from one of the bad players, go on tilt, and steam my money away."

QFT

[NOFX_PUNK 0]

There are pros and cons to each side. For example, good players understand why you are making a play, what hands you might be making that play with and what they can do against such a situation with their hand. This means your plays work more often when they are behind as they will realise this and usually fold.A stupid opponent will say, 'I don't know why he's going all in when I have a King Ten, I call' and proceed to hit a TT5T5 board against your AKs, he will follow this up with; 'Unlucky, it was 50/50 though!'Bottom line is, you will make more money from people who call in preflop with KT than u will from people who respect your play and fold their hands accordingly.I like to play good players for a good game but I like to play bad players when I want to make mobney, all the mobney! :PTo quote J'Dags, 'I got rich playing idiots, not Daniel Negreanu.' I think this says it all.

[Royal_Tour 0]

STOP WITH THE STUPID

[Aerriza 0]

The more donks you have the more tight you have to play post-flop. The stupidiest thing I see from players who say "I hate playing against donks" (And I used to be one of those players not too long ago =P) is to keep trying to push them out of the pots.But for pre-flop (and I don't know if this is right, but it's worked for me) limp in with alot of hands, becuase if you flop big your implied odds are huge.

[invulse 0]

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[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Thats what I thought, till i tried the 2-4 Limit table at my local casino....its almost impossible to be a winner at that game. Everyone plays every hand till the river. If you win a pot its gonna be big, but you might have to go through 30BB's just to win 1 pot.By decent I mean, below your own skill level, but not TERRIBLE.

this game is immossible to win, but not for the reason you think. The rake destroys a 2-4 casino game, it has nothing to do with the bad players. YOu just have to play hands that can when big, multiplayer pots, and devalute one pair type hands like KJ and A-10. WHen you're in a game like there, where everyone and their mother is in on the flop, and turn and what ever, there are two types of hands that are worth a crap on the flop. The best made hand, and the best draw. You goal, if you have or think you have either of these hands, I pump the pot up on the flop, and wack up the dead money of the hands that are worse draws, like bottom pair, over cards, runner runner, what ever else. If you're drawing 8 outs or more to the nuts, then just pump up those multi way pots on the flop. If you flop a set, pump those pots up, wack up the dead money. If you have a fragile made hand, like TPTK, do what ever you can to drive the weak draws out, or make them pay to draw out. When the pot is big, you have to do what you can to protect your hand. Sometimes this means forgoing a flop bet ( which everyone will call anyway) in favor of making a turn raise to make the draws play, and protect your hand. Flop beting in loose low level limit game should not be done with the intention of protecting your hand, 'cause it just won't. It should be done for value.

Really...is that why there was pretty much 1 pro who made a decent cash at this years WSOP ME??

I typed up a retort to this, but then I thought" fuk it" you're too stupid to bother with. Quit poker, you don't lose at poker because of the bad players, you lose at poker because you're stupid, and don't know how to play.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Really...is that why there was pretty much 1 pro who made a decent cash at this years WSOP ME??

1 pro out of 8k people is really good.infact i'm surprised even 1 made it

[invulse 0]

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[BigDMcGee 3,352]

The more donks you have the more tight you have to play post-flop. The stupidiest thing I see from players who say "I hate playing against donks" (And I used to be one of those players not too long ago =P) is to keep trying to push them out of the pots.But for pre-flop (and I don't know if this is right, but it's worked for me) limp in with alot of hands, becuase if you flop big your implied odds are huge.

I dont' agree really that you have to play tight post flop. When pots are big, you do have to loosen up a bit, due to the pot odds. Loosening up a bit preflop AND post flop is where it's at in loose and ultra loose games. But again, You need the right kind of loosening up, you need to make hands that can when big pots against multiple palyers, like connectors and AX suited, not hands you can get roped in with second best, like K-10 off

wow god ur a little **** sucking forum nerd....I post one thing and all u faggot nerds jump on me like you know everything about poker and no one else does...

Again, invose, the reason you lose at poker against donks is not because you can't beat bad players, but because your are stupid, and because you are stupid, you suck at poker. Hate to break this hard fact to you, I know everyone loves to think they are smart, and are the man at poker. BUt you, my friend, are a moron, and moron's will never win at poker. Quit poker now, and pick up a hobby more suitable for your IQ range, something like bowling or child molestation.

[NoSup4U 0]

Really...is that why there was pretty much 1 pro who made a decent cash at this years WSOP ME??

I don't even know what to say to this comment...??? What WSOP were you watching? And you're implying that all the people that made it deep were donkeys because you don't know them. But non pro doesn't equal donkey these days.And I agree with a previous poster. If you can't beat a table full of donks, then generally you're trying to push donkeys who won't fold off of mediocre hands that a better player might fold to your flush draw or whatever. Play solid, don't get tricky.Mark

[SBriand 4]

wow god ur a little **** sucking forum nerd....I post one thing and all u faggot nerds jump on me like you know everything about poker and no one else does...people like you are the reason I hate posting in forums, you get pride out of talking **** on forums, and posting what you think are cleaver responses to other peoples posts. Why don't u go die in a fire you faggot.

[sholden 0]

Thats what I thought, till i tried the 2-4 Limit table at my local casino....its almost impossible to be a winner at that game. Everyone plays every hand till the river. If you win a pot its gonna be big, but you might have to go through 30BB's just to win 1 pot.

You're playing it wrong then. You do actually need to adjust your game depending on the other players. A table full of calling stations makes for very different strategy than sitting in the big game...

[invulse 0]

xxx

[RodReynolds 87]

I would like to know what other people think on this subject...I myself find it easier to make more money in a table full of decent players, because I can read them easier and they seem to fold when I put out raises.But when I play against a full table of complete donks, I find I can make money really fast, but they never fold, and all it takes is one bad beat and I lose it all(which eventually seems to happen every time). I know people tell me that a table full of donks it the best thing you can hope for, but I find its easier to win with a table full of decent (below my skill level) players with 1 or 2 donks.

Ok, so here's the thing. You are a very good poker player, and you are operating on a very high level of thinking. Donks, of course, operate on level 1 thinking. In order to beat donks, you have to operate at level 2. Level 3 thinking is more profound than both level 1 and 2, but suffers from an interesting phenomenon. It has a tough time beating level 1 play. Even though you know exactly what is going on, you are somehow unable to beet the game, through no fault of your own. It's just the laws of Meta-Poker. This may be your problem. But I suspect you may be operating on level 5 or 7, I'm not sure. The better you are, and assuming you are on an "odd" level of thinking, the worse you do against level 1 players. So, the key of course is to move up in limits, (please ignore that bankroll crap, +EV is +EV, right?) until you find the competition directly below your level. I hope you understand this, and take my advice.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Wow ok someone just delete the thread...Theres no point to posting on here..everyone who does post anything who isnt some asshead who has 5K+ posts just gets flamed by fags like this.

I'm not flaming you because of your post count, you deluded moron, I'm flaming you because what you said is the single biggest falasy donk players tell themselves. I'm sorry if I don't candy coat the truth, but the truth is if you can't beat a table full of donks, then you are a donk. You either should quit poker or seriously think and re work your game. I'm not joking, quit poker, you'll proably never be good at you. That may seem like a flame, but it's the best advise anyone's ever given you.

[CrazyJoe 0]

YOu just have to play hands that can when big, multiplayer pots, and devalute one pair type hands like KJ and A-10. WHen you're in a game like there, where everyone and their mother is in on the flop, and turn and what ever, there are two types of hands that are worth a crap on the flop. The best made hand, and the best draw. You goal, if you have or think you have either of these hands, I pump the pot up on the flop, and wack up the dead money of the hands that are worse draws, like bottom pair, over cards, runner runner, what ever else. If you're drawing 8 outs or more to the nuts, then just pump up those multi way pots on the flop. If you flop a set, pump those pots up, wack up the dead money. If you have a fragile made hand, like TPTK, do what ever you can to drive the weak draws out, or make them pay to draw out. When the pot is big, you have to do what you can to protect your hand. Sometimes this means forgoing a flop bet ( which everyone will call anyway) in favor of making a turn raise to make the draws play, and protect your hand. Flop beting in loose low level limit game should not be done with the intention of protecting your hand, 'cause it just won't. It should be done for value.

On these thoughts, I've started thinking about super loose FL ring games similar to SH Omaha games, draw to the nuts, and push your sets.