Poker Ettiquitte . . Checking Down

[Devilkin 0]

Edited: made a positional mistake************Was watching a hand tonight live as follows (6 handed):Blinds: 200/400Button: 9500 chipsSB: 1250BB: 7250Folded to the Button, who raises to 1250, SB calls all in, but BB raises to 2500. Button calls.Flop comes Q75. BB checks and before there is any action, the button says 'Lets check it down?" and and checks.At this point, someone at the table out of the hand says 'hey, you can't do that - that's collusion to openly say that!"But, the BB then bets out at the pot on the turn, all in. The button goes ballistic, and the starts accusing the BB of bad ettiquitte, for betting when he could check it down.Without knowing any of the cards, I ask the following:1. Can you openly ask someone else in the hand to check a hand down?2. Assuming the BB had some kind of hand, is there any ettiquitte breach by betting here, since its not a dry side pot?ThanksDev

[GoCryWolfe 0]

The button shouldn't have said anything.If the BB has something close to the nuts or something like TPGK, then I see no reason to let the button catch up.I think the rest of the forum will agree.

[chgocubs99 0]

1. No2. No

[Swift_Psycho 1]

1. No2. No

[Aerriza 0]

1. No2. No

But it is anoying in an tournament when three players are in the pot, one of whom is all in, and there is no or very little side pot, and one of the active players bluffs at the pot, ugh I hate this, I've folded hands I would rarely fold, and then he turns up crap, and the all-in player triples up and is back in the game .

[chgocubs99 0]

But it is anoying in an tournament when three players are in the pot, one of whom is all in, and there is no or very little side pot, and one of the active players bluffs at the pot, ugh I hate this, I've folded hands I would rarely fold, and then he turns up crap, and the all-in player triples up and is back in the game .

Then don't fold. Problem solved.

[fatman 1]

1. no2. no

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

Saying "check it down?" is collusion:http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/140189Betting in this situation is fine.Both players checking it down, without saying it out loud, to increase the chances that they eliminate a player is fine too. Just do not say it out loud.

[Teffy 0]

there is nearly as much money in the side pot, so betting here is definately a good move. Asking to check it down is a. stupid and b. illegal. It pretty much gives the other player free reign to bet into the side, as a fold is likely.

But it is anoying in an tournament when three players are in the pot, one of whom is all in, and there is no or very little side pot, and one of the active players bluffs at the pot, ugh I hate this, I've folded hands I would rarely fold, and then he turns up crap, and the all-in player triples up and is back in the game .

It's called "bluffing a dry side pot". Next time just type that, and save 3 lines.

[GoCryWolfe 0]

Saying "check it down?" is collusion:http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/140189

That article has NOTHING to do with this situation.

[Aerriza 0]

It's called "bluffing a dry side pot". Next time just type that, and save 3 lines.

oh I didn't know there was a term for it, I can't see how you can argue a call in that situation though, SO many times betting there is going to represent strength, that TPTK or even two pair just dosen't look as good there ><.

[chgocubs99 0]

oh I didn't know there was a term for it, I can't see how you can argue a call in that situation though, SO many times betting there is going to represent strength, that TPTK or even two pair just dosen't look as good there ><.

Then fold. You can't have it both ways.

[Mongoosey 0]

1. no2. no

[Gooser 0]

1. you cant say anything at all. 2. i find it personally annoying when someone bluffs a dry side pot cause it lets the other guy triple up...when this happens in SnG's i tend to think collusion between the other guys =0....maybe its just the devils advocate in me

[finztotheleft 0]

1. No2. No

[NoSup4U 0]

Then don't fold. Problem solved.

Agreed. It has become in vogue lately for in the know players to say things like 'don't bluff the dry side pot'. I believe Daniel talks about it somewhere in a blog or something as well. (but I'm not positive)But I've never liked this thinking. You're there to win the tournament. There are a lot of chips sitting out there for someone to win. Why let your opponent catch up, just because you're looking to move up in the money? If you're playing to win, those chips are way more important to you than busting out a player and moving up a spot.Gavin Smith talked about this on the Circuit semi recently. he advocated playing to win and bluffing at the dry side pot if you think you might be ahead of the dead money and can get the other guy out.Mark

[SPADES21 0]

so what was the result of the hand

[RichieValenz 0]

So if somebody does say "Lets check it down?" what type of penalty do they incur? Is it like a time penalty or are they completely kicked out of the tournament?

[Smiddywap 0]

hey, you can't do that - that's collusion to openly say that!

[Canada 0]

So if somebody does say "Lets check it down?" what type of penalty do they incur? Is it like a time penalty or are they completely kicked out of the tournament?

Depends on the rules that the tournament is running under. There are, unfortunately, no standard rules for poker that are accepted everywhere. Google Rob's Rules of poker for a good set that you can use though.I'm guessing the usual practice would be that their hand is dead and sometimes a time penalty for a first offence.To the OP, there is no etiquette in this situation. It simply is often best for all concerned (except the all-in player) to check it down. This has developed into the absolute of 'never bluff a dry side pot'.Anybody that quotes and believes this gets the fish tag from me as they obviously don't think about their poker.

[SAM_Hard8 44]

no no

[psujohn 0]

But I've never liked this thinking. You're there to win the tournament. There are a lot of chips sitting out there for someone to win. Why let your opponent catch up, just because you're looking to move up in the money? If you're playing to win, those chips are way more important to you than busting out a player and moving up a spot.

That makes no sense. There's a lot of money out there but with the player all-in you can't win it unless you showdown a winning hand. Since there's no money in the side pot there's no money to be made by getting the non-all-in player to fold.Now if you think you have a better hand than the all-in player but potentially can lose to the non-all-in player then a bet makes sense. This bet is not a bluff though. It's a bet to protect your made hand.Your desired outcomes in this hand in order:- win the hand- lose the hand but all-in player loses- lose the hand and all-in player wins

[Mercury69 3]

Without reading what other people have said, the Button is a ****ing moron and should keep his GODDAMN yapper shut. There is nothing, NOTHING that he can or should do about the BB betting ionto a pot, esp when there is already a side pot. Yes, there is an "unspoken" "rule" where people will check down a hand to eliminate a shorter stack, but if some guy hits the nuts, get out of the way or play for the pot. Frickin' *****.

[NoSup4U 0]

That makes no sense. There's a lot of money out there but with the player all-in you can't win it unless you showdown a winning hand. Since there's no money in the side pot there's no money to be made by getting the non-all-in player to fold.

Um, sure there is money to be made. Its called the MAIN POT!!!!!

Now if you think you have a better hand than the all-in player but potentially can lose to the non-all-in player then a bet makes sense. This bet is not a bluff though. It's a bet to protect your made hand.

I fully agree. For the most part, the all in guy could have a wide variety of cards if he's short and just finding a place to push. If I am fairly certain whatever hand I have isn't beating the all in, I wouldn't bet. But if there is any reason to suspect I might be, I will take my chances, as winning that pot is much more important to me than moving up in the money.Mark

[DonkSlayer 1]

Look, if there's no sidepot, you're a jerk and not smart for betting. Even if you have the 3rd nuts, the guy allin could have the 2nd nuts and you may, by betting, have pushed out the river-nuts on the flop. It's bad strategery. If there's a big sidepot and it's OBVIOUS to you that you'll probably get more chips at the end of the hand by betting at any given point, then go ahead and bet. Not kosher to talk about it but I wish the word on this would get out more so friggen donks aren't always semi-bluffing at dry sidepots