Calling With Gutshots. When Is It Ok?

[invulse 0]

This is one of the few draws in poker I have no idea how to play, aside from betting them. I am constantly losing money to people who it looks like are making donkey plays by calling me 5x the bb raise with a gut shot in the flop and somehow making them on the river. So when is it ok to just call with a gutshot? And how do you normally play gutshot draws?

[loopie 0]

This is one of the few draws in poker I have no idea how to play, aside from betting them. I am constantly losing money to people who it looks like are making donkey plays by calling me 5x the bb raise with a gut shot in the flop and somehow making them on the river. So when is it ok to just call with a gutshot? And how do you normally play gutshot draws?

check into pot odds for limit holdem and implied odds for no limit holdem."Normally play"? You just pound and pray they dont hit. Pound and pray

[invulse 0]

check into pot odds for limit holdem and implied odds for no limit holdem."Normally play"? You just pound and pray they dont hit. Pound and pray

I understand pot and implied odds, but pretty much any bet into a pot that is more than 1/4 of the pot size should price a gutshot out. Yet time and time again I lose pots to people who call my pot-sized bets with gutshots.

[loopie 0]

I understand pot and implied odds, but pretty much any bet into a pot that is more than 1/4 of the pot size should price a gutshot out. Yet time and time again I lose pots to people who call my pot-sized bets with gutshots.

So u play no limit? Try and bet more than u normally do and pick up the smaller pot right there. Some people can't fold draws, so this is where "long run" comes in. Supposedly, u will win out and the draws won't hit and ur made hand will hold.But, generally, if u notice particular players drawing for any price, then over bet the pot when they are in.

[invulse 0]

So u play no limit? Try and bet more than u normally do and pick up the smaller pot right there. Some people can't fold draws, so this is where "long run" comes in. Supposedly, u will win out and the draws won't hit and ur made hand will hold.But, generally, if u notice particular players drawing for any price, then over bet the pot when they are in.

Wait I think you got my question backwards. My question is how do you play a gutshot when you have the gutshot and you want to hit it? Not pushing draws out, im usually pretty good at that aslong as Im not playing complete donkeys or calling stations.

[hblask 1]

Wait I think you got my question backwards. My question is how do you play a gutshot when you have the gutshot and you want to hit it? Not pushing draws out, im usually pretty good at that aslong as Im not playing complete donkeys or calling stations.

How do you play a gutshot? Just say no. Or Fold. I rarely run into an instance where it is worth it, even with implied odds. The only time would be if the bets are small and I think the person has an AA that they won't let go of, or has a lower straight that they won't let go of (this latter case has never happened, when I think about it -- how do you put someone on that?). On the turn, gutshots are at best 5:1, on the river 11:1. When have you ever seen someone bet so little as to make that worth it?

[loopie 0]

well, when pot odds and implied odds warrant it. (as i said before)But also when u go for it make sure there is no flush draw out there(rainbow) and that your gutshot is drawing to the nuts. The thinking behind this is if u pay for it and hit u want to make sure it's good.So for example, 8-9 on a flop of Q-J-3. This gutshot would be bad because a 10 would give u the straight but also possibly somebody a higher straight. Whatever u do, be consistent.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

So you want to know when to call a bet to draw to a 4 outer? When you are getting >4:1 on your $ after the Flop and >10:1 after the turn(read Loopie's post)

[myenemy 0]

So you want to know when to call a bet to draw to a 4 outer? When you are getting >4:1 on your $ after the Flop and >10:1 after the turn(read Loopie's post)

Well its not always that cut and dried. A gut shot draw is greatly enhanced by holding a pair as well. This isn't a surprise, but you want that pair to be middle or top and your draw to be to the nuts. This situation mind you, does not make this a great hand by any means, simply a trickier hand that can cost you alot. Otherwise, sometimes I'll take a card off for a gutshot in the following scenario: I limped late (preferably on the button) after 3-4 callers and flopped a gutshot. I'll call a min bet or a little more if there are callers ahead of me and Im drawing to nuts.

[Actuary 3]

this thread is pretty retarded.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

...nevermind...

[loopie 0]

this thread is pretty retarded.

Why u gotta call Invulse retarded? The guy just wants to know about gutshots. Gutshots can be the most frustrating hands to lose to. I feel his pain.

[Actuary 3]

Why u gotta call Invulse retarded?

the responses were.Geeze, cut me some slack.I can't give great answers all the time.You play gutshots like other draws.Look at texture/stacks/RIO/foldequity/impliedodds/potodds/outstootherhands/rangeofopponentshands/payoutstructure/visibility/yeah a lot of stuff.need specific scenario.this is too general even for general strategy.I chase gut shots a lot.Is that good answer?

[aim786 0]

this thread is pretty retarded.

I 2nd that!

[loopie 0]

I chase gut shots a lot.Is that good answer?

dunno, I thought u were my daddy. You tell me.

[Zach6668 513]

The NL section in SS2 talks a lot about gutshot draws. Read it.I tend to call a lot of flops with them for even like 2/3rds-3/4s pot size bets. implied odds at low limit NL are my friend.- Zach

[mtdesmoines 3]

How do you play a gutshot? Just say no. Or Fold. I rarely run into an instance where it is worth it, even with implied odds. The only time would be if the bets are small and I think the person has an AA that they won't let go of, or has a lower straight that they won't let go of (this latter case has never happened, when I think about it -- how do you put someone on that?). On the turn, gutshots are at best 5:1, on the river 11:1. When have you ever seen someone bet so little as to make that worth it?

When eight players all simply call a five dollar bet into a 50 dollar pot. That makes it "worth it" I suppose. I guess I could really start something and ask if a gutshot is really THAT much worse than an open ended? You're drawing to x outs vs xx. I fold straight draws when they're pressured.

[The Nuts 0]

This is one of the few draws in poker I have no idea how to play, aside from betting them. I am constantly losing money to people who it looks like are making donkey plays by calling me 5x the bb raise with a gut shot in the flop and somehow making them on the river. So when is it ok to just call with a gutshot? And how do you normally play gutshot draws?

Unless the odds are astronomical, I never draw solely to an inside straight.I may make a bluff attempt with one depending upon the circumstances, but I'm not calling a bet with one.

[Actuary 3]

Unless the odds are astronomical, I never draw solely to an inside straight.

why not?or more specifically how astronomical do the odds need to be?

[The Nuts 0]

why not?or more specifically how astronomical do the odds need to be?

Maybe not astronomical. Exaggerated that a bit.After the flop, you have two chances to hit a four outer.The odds of you hitting a gutshot straight by the river is about 5:1, meaning that I would need those odds to see the turn solely with a gutshot draw. In NL Hold'em, I won't get those odds all too often by players who aren't lobotomy patients.If I miss it on the turn, then I would need about 11:1 odds to justify seeing the river.In Limit, if the pot is large enough, I may have the right odds to see the next card. But unless I get a free cards or said pot odds, I won't be chasing it.

[Zach6668 513]

Implied odds?

[loopie 0]

implied odds are overrated in limit holdem if they exist at all

[The Nuts 0]

Implied odds?

If you believe that your opponent(s) have solid hands and will put more cash into the pot, then yeah you could include them. I normally don't do that unless I have a read on my opponent. As appalling as this may be, I don't take implied odds into account too much. I stick to more conventional pot odds because those implied odds may not exist in the first place.

[Actuary 3]

Maybe not astronomical. Exaggerated that a bit.After the flop, you have two chances to hit a four outer.The odds of you hitting a gutshot straight by the river is about 5:1, meaning that I would need those odds to see the turn solely with a gutshot draw. In NL Hold'em, I won't get those odds all too often by players who aren't lobotomy patients.If I miss it on the turn, then I would need about 11:1 odds to justify seeing the river.In Limit, if the pot is large enough, I may have the right odds to see the next card. But unless I get a free cards or said pot odds, I won't be chasing it.

other than perhaps disagreeing on the implied odds factor, this seems like you play gutshots like I would play all draws: Be aware of pot odds and how much opponents will pay us off. Nothing particular there about a gutshot, other than any decent bet blows your odds away.so we agree, cool

[LooseCannon 0]

Maybe you're just not semi-bluffing enough with gutshots. I dislike bluffing with complete air and no outs, but a gutshot semibluff, especially if you have a mild shot of winning if you make a pair, has enough outs that I start thinking about when to bet, raise, or check-raise with a gutshot.Maybe you're just paying off too often on the river when you get beat by a gutshot. This means that sometimes you should check-call with a hand like a set, rather than betting and calling a raise. You make their implied odds high enough that it is correct for them to call despite not having the right immediate pot odds.