chilidawg7 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 OK the other night in one hand, Daniel bet something like 150 and a guy moves all-in behind him for something like 5k. DN questions the bet, the guy responds "that's poker." DN then says something along the lines of "no, that's not poker."i understand what DN is saying, but bear with me for a moment here. most folks on here probably agree with DN, and to a certain extent, i do too. but think about it for a minute:is that the future of poker? i can see how if guys keep playing long enough like that, they'll go broke and in theory eventually all those guys will eventually fade away, taking their poker style with them. BUT - if only for an instant, when i heard DN say that, i thought that maybe he was sounding like one of those old athletes who says something along the lines of "that's not how to play MY sport. These guys in the NBA/NFL/NHL/whatever are making a mockery of the game I love.", when in reality, that IS how the game is played today. Dunking, dancing in the endzone, etc. So the question is, is there a paradigm shift in poker? Must everyone play DN's way? The "right" way. Or will this new aggressive style slowly but surely become the norm? In my mind, that's one of the beauties of poker. Not everyone plays the same way. And a wild, stupid style can be effective at times, though not over the long haul, of course.Anyway, there's my two cents. Let me know what you're thinking... Link to post Share on other sites
The Nuts 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I have a small penisFYPThere's a thread on this somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 The guy made a ridiculous overbet, and the comment was necessary I thought. Link to post Share on other sites
greatwhite 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 He was trying to get the table to play more postflop poker, because that's where his strength is. He is telling them that's how the professionals play and that's how you should play too so that he doesn't get runned over. I don't blame him. Link to post Share on other sites
rwood 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 unnecessary post nuts.getting all their money in early is how am's fade the skill difference against pro's. Link to post Share on other sites
Stylin_Fish 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Increased # of players + Low Buy ins + little skill = Tournament poker is a joke. Link to post Share on other sites
greatwhite 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Increased # of players + Low Buy ins + little skill = Tournament poker is a joke.So true. Link to post Share on other sites
PairTheBoard 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Didn't the all-in guy have Aces? Link to post Share on other sites
pokergeekinaz 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Increased # of players + Low Buy ins + little skill = Tournament poker is a joke.To me, it's just the WSOP ME that's become a joke because it's the big one. The only way that could possibly change is if they bump the buyin up to $25K or more.But if you think all tournament poker is crap, you know who to blame for that- television and online poker sites. TV popularized the game and online poker made it possible for all the donks to come out and play. Link to post Share on other sites
fleung22 1 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I prefer post-flop poker too and make a lot of small raises pre-flop to control the pot sizes.However, if I were to play Daniel I understand that I can't outplay him in a post flop game. My adjustment would definitely to play more preflop poker and add the luck factor. Link to post Share on other sites
rbakken2504 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I have a small penis[/b]FYPThere's a thread on this somewhere.I have a small penis.....and damn proud of it. Link to post Share on other sites
rogerwilco 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Didn't the all-in guy have Aces? I don't think they showed his hand, but if he had AA it is even stupider than if he had KJ, 55 or some other trash, because he would almost never get any value from that play. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I prefer post-flop poker too and make a lot of small raises pre-flop to control the pot sizes.However, if I were to play Daniel I understand that I can't outplay him in a post flop game. My adjustment would definitely to play more preflop poker and add the luck factor.Meh, don't feel like commenting on actual topic, so I'll post about this. Though "lucking it up" is supposedly the smart thing to do against someone with superior talent, I think most of us given the opportunity to go at a strong pro would play our best style and try to bring our A game. I know I have ego and I would. I would not continually push and try and beat DN in a 40-60 or something, but would try to outplay him, I play the game because I realize that it is a skill game and I'd like to try and win the "right" way. I guess that sounds kind of stupid, but I'll be damned if there is someone who is going to intimidate enough to for me to admit that I can be outplayed so much that I just start drastically overbetting. Wasn't really picking on your post I just know you are a solid player and think you likely have confidence in your game and would like to see if it can measure up. Link to post Share on other sites
uahphysics 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I don't believe there is a "right" way and "wrong" way to play poker. HoweverThere are plays that are "stupid" and "retarded", or "donkalicious" if you prefer. Link to post Share on other sites
blueodum 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 So the question is, is there a paradigm shift in poker? No. The very best players love to play post-flop and never make ridiculous oversize bets like that. Link to post Share on other sites
Smiddywap 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 There's always room for change in the game. However, with the wealth of info available these days there are getting to be more and more educated players. Whichever style they choose to play, they understand the impact of their choices.In basketball, one strategy you could employ would be to shoot the ball as soon as you get it no matter where you are on the court. It would be very hard to defend against these shots, however in the long run a team which took a more conventional approach would win. As a result, the typical strategy wouldn't be overtaken by the ultra-aggressive.My point is that though new styles of play will come along (such as the constant all-in), only the more successful strategies will stick around. Link to post Share on other sites
ilovejulie 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Increased # of players + Low Buy ins + little skill = Tournament poker is a jopke.FYP Link to post Share on other sites
fleung22 1 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Meh, don't feel like commenting on actual topic, so I'll post about this. Though "lucking it up" is supposedly the smart thing to do against someone with superior talent, I think most of us given the opportunity to go at a strong pro would play our best style and try to bring our A game. I know I have ego and I would. I would not continually push and try and beat DN in a 40-60 or something, but would try to outplay him, I play the game because I realize that it is a skill game and I'd like to try and win the "right" way. I guess that sounds kind of stupid, but I'll be damned if there is someone who is going to intimidate enough to for me to admit that I can be outplayed so much that I just start drastically overbetting. Wasn't really picking on your post I just know you are a solid player and think you likely have confidence in your game and would like to see if it can measure up.You didn't exactly attack me so offense taken dude. I never get too worked up on the forums anyhow.To me, the "right" move is giving myself the best shot at winning. I obviously wouldn't be caught in a situation where I was playing a cash game with Daniel.If we're talking about something small like the Neg-O then yeah, I'll play my regular game. It would be an opportunity to learn from a mistake.If we're talking about tournament where I can win a million dollars you better believe I'm going to do whatever is necessary to get to the top.I'm not talking about just randomly pushing and pushing. I'm saying that if I get into a situation where I'm a shorter stack than Daniel and risk losing a big part of my stack because he pulls a move on me then I'd rather put that money in early than try to outplay him post flop. I've watched Daniel do things on TV that are things I could do. But sometimes Danny boy makes reads that are like superhuman. It's a real treat to watch his talent but I'm not prepared to be on his highlight reel of suckers he beat on TV. If I think he has a medium pocket pair and I've got AK then I'd rather take it right there or have a race situation. Link to post Share on other sites
aucu 3 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Yes there has been a giant shift in tournament poker, but these guys are toast in the cash games. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerkid 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 To me, it's just the WSOP ME that's become a joke because it's the big one. The only way that could possibly change is if they bump the buyin up to $25K or more.But if you think all tournament poker is crap, you know who to blame for that- television and online poker sites. TV popularized the game and online poker made it possible for all the donks to come out and play.Online players are MUCH better than live players. Link to post Share on other sites
fleung22 1 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Online players are MUCH better than live players.Uh oh...that's gonna open another can of worms...AGAIN. Link to post Share on other sites
Cue 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Online players are MUCH better than live players.Online players are generally better at the online game then live players. And live players are generally better at the live game then online players.This is not difficult. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 And live players don't twirl seat covers over thier heads when they suck out on someone.and live player's don't live mostly with Mom Link to post Share on other sites
mx957 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 And live players don't twirl seat covers over thier heads when they suck out on someone.and live player's don't live mostly with Mom Now that made me laugh.....NH sir, well done! Link to post Share on other sites
dirtystacks 0 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I can't believe how shortsighted most of you are. This 'that's not poker' mentality is absurd. Sure. Tournament poker isn't 'poker' in the NLHE cash game sense. No one really ever said that it was. The mistake is thinking that tournament poker can or should mirror a cash game. Negreanu makes comments like that because he believes his best shot to win is if people are not doing exactly what that guy did. The other guy has determined that his best shot to win includes, perhaps predominantly, that move.Sitting here and saying, you must play small ball or you suck is absurd. The question is what strategy is effective at any given time. If you're playing against Negreanu, it's not self evident that even attempting to counter small ball with small ball is the optimal strategy. Link to post Share on other sites
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