Bankroll Management Vs 'the Dream'

[cuddlemonkey 0]

I see all these posts about how to build a '50 dollar bankroll'..LOL are you fk'n kidding me ? 50 bucks is not a 'bankroll' how dare you defile my sport/passion/lifesblood with such a blatent insult. If you think for a minute you are going to nickel and dime your way to riches practicing 'good bankroll management' while playing micro limits...well I'm sorry to say you are delusional.Rippy

Since you're obviously loopy at the moment, I'm going to cut you a little slack, but not much.First things first. To those of us on a slightly limited income, who have more expenses than time, depositing $50 isn't a bad way to go. It may be a grind, but it can be enjoyable. You get a certain satisfaction turning a free $25 into a $500 cashout.Secondly, that bolded statement makes me hate you. A lot. I don't give a damn if you think I'm defiling your game, or disrespecting your passion. We're all here because we enjoy poker. If you don't like the fact that some of us try to manage the small bankrolls that we can afford to play with, then I'm sorry that you feel the need to be a prick about it.

[ripptyde 0]

[vampyrv 0]

Man, how can anyone keep up with that multi-tabling?I find it hard to believe that some people can actually produce profit with crazy multi-tabling like that.

[ripptyde 0]

Since you're obviously loopy at the moment, I'm going to cut you a little slack, but not much.First things first. To those of us on a slightly limited income, who have more expenses than time, depositing $50 isn't a bad way to go. It may be a grind, but it can be enjoyable. You get a certain satisfaction turning a free $25 into a $500 cashout.Secondly, that bolded statement makes me hate you. A lot. I don't give a damn if you think I'm defiling your game, or disrespecting your passion. We're all here because we enjoy poker. If you don't like the fact that some of us try to manage the small bankrolls that we can afford to play with, then I'm sorry that you feel the need to be a prick about it.

Mr Cuddle of Monkeyville,Not trying to be a 'prick' about it....just doing my part to encourage the 'dream'. You resorted to personal attacks, I'm trying to inspire poker players to think about why they love poker and to embrace it.

[Guest_ 0]

i have to agree with rippy herei have built rolls of over 2k before with 70 dollar deposits by playing mtts..won a couple 5ers started playing the 20s.won 1 that BAM insta rollsame now on poker room i have about 600 (not much but hey im poor) that i built from a 25 dollar depositall from tourneysi know your loopy but i kinda agree fck grinding the low limits it dosent workmy current roll i built from playing a tourney i had no business playing... oh and i took 1st

[phathand 0]

Ripp,First off I think anyone who is a player, and takes a certain level of seriousness to their game and fantasizes about making a lifestyle of it- who does not understand the nucleus of your rant is a liar.And while i applaud the spirit of the rage that fuels you, i think we both know that your argument is flawed. First, you speak of your passion for the game. Any sort of passion, or hunger, or dream..requires hundreds upon hundreds of painstaking hours of monotiny to achieve the aforementioned dream. Your passionate, yet simplistic, beef sounds like that of a bush-leaguer who doesn't know in order to achieve a high-level lifestle..one must spend a while in the trenches. BUT, this i think you know. I just think you are in a state that many of us are in. The belief in ourselves, but the very honest realization that this life was something very hard to make work 10 years ago...let alone now. WE are at a disadvantage. The market is flooded. The pros share their secrets. The average players level is constantly increasing..and it is becoming clear that most of us will fail at this dream.But if it is gonna happen 4 any of us, I stand firmly that this is how. Build your bankroll the way of the turtle slow and steady. As your game improves, strategically play in tourneys that will give you the opportunity to drastically change your bankroll. From one player to another...step off the ledge...your should soon realize that your rational is the same reason that many kids just re-raise all in with AK...they dont have the fortitiude to play it out.Anyway...eat something...sleep it off...no problem with venting...see you in the mix tomorrow.Happy hunting.

[kkot 0]

i know your loopy but i kinda agree fck grinding the low limits it dosent work

It does work. I went from $100 to over $1.5k in under 2 months grinding away at the low limits. Now I can play higher limits with confidence, knowing that I can beat the games I am playing in. Will I take shots at higher levels without the proper roll? Yes. But it will definitely have to be an above average table.If you have the patience, building your bankroll through lower limits can do nothing but hone your game. I'm finding it hard to come up with reasons against that.

[WolvenASE 0]

What you should do is go to the big 1k/2k O/8b game at FTP and post the big blind and see what happens.

[poker_study 0]

Ripp,First off I think anyone who is a player, and takes a certain level of seriousness to their game and fantasizes about making a lifestyle of it- who does not understand the nucleus of your rant is a liar.And while i applaud the spirit of the rage that fuels you, i think we both know that your argument is flawed. First, you speak of your passion for the game. Any sort of passion, or hunger, or dream..requires hundreds upon hundreds of painstaking hours of monotiny to achieve the aforementioned dream. Your passionate, yet simplistic, beef sounds like that of a bush-leaguer who doesn't know in order to achieve a high-level lifestle..one must spend a while in the trenches. BUT, this i think you know. I just think you are in a state that many of us are in. The belief in ourselves, but the very honest realization that this life was something very hard to make work 10 years ago...let alone now. WE are at a disadvantage. The market is flooded. The pros share their secrets. The average players level is constantly increasing..and it is becoming clear that most of us will fail at this dream.But if it is gonna happen 4 any of us, I stand firmly that this is how. Build your bankroll the way of the turtle slow and steady. As your game improves, strategically play in tourneys that will give you the opportunity to drastically change your bankroll. From one player to another...step off the ledge...your should soon realize that your rational is the same reason that many kids just re-raise all in with AK...they dont have the fortitiude to play it out.Anyway...eat something...sleep it off...no problem with venting...see you in the mix tomorrow.Happy hunting.

[Fluffdog87 2]

When I go to sleep at night I dream of players like you taking a shot in my game. Then the next day I sit down and clean your clock.Tell me when you get your next check, and I'll find YOUR table!

[navybuttons 15]

lol why should I look for work when I'll be netting just under 2K a month from a state fund that I PAID INTO for the next 26 weeks. Perfect opportunity to hang out stress free and play poker. Considering my living expenses are next to non existent, I have the means to try make a good run at building a real bankroll. Plz don't rain on my dream

explain this state fund thing. is it just unemployment?forgive the criticism but it seems as though you have never had to work to make a living, and i mean really make a living. insurance, laundry detergent, and cable bills. while i support the idea of taking shots at bigger games and big tournaments it is on average not a winning recipe. professional poker players survive by averages both on and off the table.

[Wandigo 1]

I'm not sure if I totally agree with your post, but I admire your passion to write so damn much!

[blueodum 0]

I'd rather hone my skills, moving up limits in cash games to the approach the OP takes. In 18 months, I have built my bankroll starting at .25/.5 limit holdem and now play mostly 5/10 and 10/20 LHE and 1/2 and 2/4 NLHE. I dabble at lower stakes in the other games, so that eventually I will become competent in all the games.That is MY dream. Not to win a big MTT, not to become a big tournament star that is famous for a few years and then fades to oblivion. But to be able to beat a 50/100 mixed game and a 10/20 NLHE game in a live setting, thereby earning a good living. And I don't want to take a shot at these until both my bankroll and poker skills are ready. I know that if I have the talent in me, my bankroll discipline will make this dream a reality eventually.In the meantime, my bankroll steadily grows, as do my poker skills.

[navybuttons 15]

I'd rather hone my skills, moving up limits in cash games to the approach the OP takes. In 18 months, I have built my bankroll starting at .25/.5 limit holdem and now play mostly 5/10 and 10/20 LHE and 1/2 and 2/4 NLHE. I dabble at lower stakes in the other games, so that eventually I will become competent in all the games.That is MY dream. Not to win a big MTT, not to become a big tournament star that is famous for a few years and then fades to oblivion. But to be able to beat a 50/100 mixed game and a 10/20 NLHE game in a live setting, thereby earning a good living. And I don't want to take a shot at these until both my bankroll and poker skills are ready. I know that if I have the talent in me, my bankroll discipline will make this dream a reality eventually.In the meantime, my bankroll steadily grows, as do my poker skills.

a little bit of mother effin sense. nh.

[chrozzo 19]

Ok first things 1st. I've had a few drinks and a Tylenol PM for a toothache, so I'm kinda 'punchy'... but damnit I wanna say something about this. I think about this all the time so WTF flame away if you must.Yea yea yea I get the whole (5% of your roll) in play snow job by the math geeks. I get it. Cool concept if you have no balls and you feel like getting btch slapped by variance playing stakes that are putting you to sleep. The scenario is common > make a deposit. play 10% of your roll at a time....suck out suck out suck out > TILT > play higher stakes..busto...repeat process.I see all these posts about how to build a '50 dollar bankroll'..LOL are you fk'n kidding me ? 50 bucks is not a 'bankroll' how dare you defile my sport/passion/lifesblood with such a blatent insult. If you think for a minute you are going to nickel and dime your way to riches practicing 'good bankroll management' while playing micro limits...well I'm sorry to say you are delusional.There is one way, and one way only to make that jump to higher stakesWIN a big MTT All these 'top' players you see 'ranked' (whatever the fk that means anyway) all got where they are right now by taking down a big score. Its really as simple as that. These guys are not poker 'savants' or 'brilliant poker minds'....far from it. They have these massive disposable bankrolls which allow them to play no fear LaGG poker.... in events where everybody else has their asses puckered up tight thinkin about what they spent to buy in etc etc etc. They got that one big top 3 finish that vaulted their bankrolls to a new level and they can play these big buy in events without putting and real value on the buy in.OK the question is: Can you be content playing poker to make a small profit ?For me the answer is an emphatic > NO I suppose I could sit here all day long in my office staring at my 24 inch monitor 8 tabling .50/1.00 and make a few hundred a week never really risking anything. No final tables, no pots putting my roll on the line....just playing it safe and being content making rent money. For me that would be a no brainer...The problem isnt how I think. I love poker. I don't play for the money...I mean yea I do of course I play for money but the driving force is the real thrill is the GAME and the competition...the mindgames...the strategy. The EGO'S so many things to appreciate NLHE. But I'll always play to win.I love tournament poker. Ive won a few big MTT's, and was within a few cards of a six figure payoff. Thats the 'dream'...knowing that I was a few cards away from a life changing payoff that would have settled ALL my bills and let me move to Vegas in style. Ok so I suppose I could take 500 every 2 weeks and grind out $25 dollar (18) mans...but no....not this time. Unless someone can come up with a better suggestion my plan is to play the (18) man $55+5 turbos. Then come Sunday take my seat and run with it like I used to. OK title was 'Bankroll Management vs 'The Dream'The dream is to win a BIG buy in tourney...catch a few cards...believe in yourself and don't btch about bad beats' Play the best game you can bring to the table and be happy when you lose shoving with the best of it. The 'dream' is all we have as poker players.....does anybody really want to just be a low limit grinder ? I don't. I've been busted many times and I'll probably be busted again...but I know ( and I hope YOU know ) that I have what it takes to 'make it' given the opportunity.Dont ever let your bankroll define who you are as a player. Keep dreaming, keep learning and keep raising :)Ok comin back to re-edit like I said been drinking...but for Gods sake please don't try to practice 'bankroll management' with a handful of bucks.....Make your deposit and play MEAN...get gritty...catch a few hands and then move on.....stop nursing your so called 'roll'...once in a while step outside the box and play stakes outside your roll....(yea yea yea here it comes I can hear it comin) If you have positive cash flow from another source then FK your 'bankroll'. Yea you heard me. Be willing to lose it shoving to a raise with an OESD feel GOOD about gambling and loving the game. Just have engh behind to buy into the next game.OK title is br management vs the dreamthe dream is hitting it huge. winning a bracelet or a WPT event. Only going to happen to a handful of us.br management is bullshit I hate the math geek jerkoffs who preach conservative poker. If you got the game....take your shot at higher stakes...You have enough game. These 'elite' players' are NOT better then me. Stop thinking a whopping 50 bucks is a 'bankroll' and asking the best way to build it.Once in a while it feels good to deposit 250 bucks and play the Sunday Million instead of 4 tabling $6.50 SnG's.Point is we all love poker, but ask yourself 'why am I playing?' Is it to make 2.5 bb's per hour or compete with the best (online) players at higher stakes where your life can actually change if you take down a big score.Ok sorry like I said been drinking just thinking out loudRippy

im sorry, all i heard was "blah, blah, blah, im a dirty tramp"

[CobaltBlue 662]

Wait, wait...so my depositing $25, playing .05/.10 NLHE, and building that into over $40k is somehow "defiling" the game of poker? I've worked my way up through the trenches. Many times, I've had to fall back to lower trenches. That's my job though...it's what needs to be done to guarantee that I can pay bills. Yeah, I'll take some shots occasionally. I played some decent sized tournies in Vegas this year. My "grinding" allowed me to get to that point. My "grinding" allowed me to learn the game.I'm sorry you're such an impatient person, rippy.

[Wandigo 1]

I love tournament poker. Ive won a few big MTT's, and was within a few cards of a six figure payoff. Thats the 'dream'...knowing that I was a few cards away from a life changing payoff that would have settled ALL my bills and let me move to Vegas in style.

My dream is 3 chicks at once, then winning a mtt.

[dimseven 0]

I've read a couple of posts from the OP and I'll agree that he's an idiotic cumstain.

[Money022 0]

Wait, wait...so my depositing $25, playing .05/.10 NLHE, and building that into over $40k is somehow "defiling" the game of poker? I've worked my way up through the trenches. Many times, I've had to fall back to lower trenches. That's my job though...it's what needs to be done to guarantee that I can pay bills. Yeah, I'll take some shots occasionally. I played some decent sized tournies in Vegas this year. My "grinding" allowed me to get to that point. My "grinding" allowed me to learn the game.I'm sorry you're such an impatient person, rippy.

And that folks is a little thing we like to call "hitting the nail on the head".I spent my first 6 months in online poker living by the OP's moto and all it did was lead to bust after bust and a lot of headaches. It's been during the last 3 months where I decided to start fresh with a $50 deposit and stick to .05/.10 NL to build that roll. I'm up just shy of $1k as a result. I've now been able to move up limits and see a higher return from session to session as a result. Many of us start from the bottom and work our way up. We develope our game while building our roll. They go hand in hand. Do I think you should takes shots from time to time outside of your normal game? Sure, can't hurt when applied in moderation. But if you think the only way you can make it big is to have one big break and then have it be smooth sailing for the rest of your long poker career, then you're in for a world of disappointment.

[game breaker 0]

I challange anyone to name one pro that didn't start out over his/her head, and if they weren't buying in over their head it just means that they had a great job or trust fund that they could afford the large buy ins. No pro started out grinding from .5/1. At the verrry least 3/6, but even then they moved up way to quickly because it takes that same kind of gamble mentality to win in the big games. Phil Ivey put everything he had on the line several times and went bust, that's the kind of person it takes to 'live the dream.'

[rgold79 0]

Okay so I've read a lot of posts on this forum but only today did I feel compelled to register and give my two cents because I think I get what you all are talking about.Anyway, for most of my online career I've done a lot of small grinding, mainly as a way of building up a bankroll to take shots in bigger and better tournaments. A few weeks ago I cashed for over 6K in a stars rebuy, by far my biggest haul ever. Right after that, I immediately started playing larger cash games and picked up an additional 2K within a week. Then, in one weekend of poor decision-making, that $2000 was gone. Luckily I still have most of the money so I have a cushion to right myself, but it has definitely taught me that the most important thing you can carry with you when you play poker is to maintain the discipline to know what is right for you at any particular time. That being said, though, I also think that it's both acceptable and wise to take a shot every now and then, as long you know you can handle the loss and as long as losing that money isn't going to start you on a long tilting losing streak. But the most important thing is to always put yourself in situations where you feel the most comfortable and secure. That way you know it's your opponents who are sweating instead of you, and you can concentrate on simply playing as best you can. And that picture of the money makes one hell of a case for taking the occasional shot.

[CobaltBlue 662]

I challange anyone to name one pro that didn't start out over his/her head, and if they weren't buying in over their head it just means that they had a great job or trust fund that they could afford the large buy ins.

Chris Ferguson played poker online with play money. "OMG! Not play money!" By OP's logic, play money is an abomination.The trick to playing poker for an extended amount of time for profit is to avoid going broke. Yeah, lots of pros went broke, but it's really not a requirement unless you're vying to earn the title of degenerate gambler.

[blueodum 0]

I challange anyone to name one pro that didn't start out over his/her head, and if they weren't buying in over their head it just means that they had a great job or trust fund that they could afford the large buy ins.Howard Lederer started at the bottom of the Mayfair Club. He lost at each level before figuring out how to beat it and then moved up. At the time he was living rough in NYC; he ran errands for the other players to make ends meet.Barry Greenstein played and beat progressively higher stakes games in high school, college and graduate school. When he went to the San Fran area he learned lowball in the lower stakes game until he was completely comfortable and then moved up to the bigger game and crushed it.And I'm pretty sure both Todd Brunson and Jennifer Harmen started playing in low to mid stakes live and worked their way up.The truth is, a lot of cash game players start out at modest stakes and move up when the feel their skills are ready (bankroll is a little less important if they have the ability to borrow from other players when they run bad).

[Haz 0]

I challange anyone to name one pro that didn't start out over his/her head, and if they weren't buying in over their head it just means that they had a great job or trust fund that they could afford the large buy ins. No pro started out grinding from .5/1. At the verrry least 3/6, but even then they moved up way to quickly because it takes that same kind of gamble mentality to win in the big games. Phil Ivey put everything he had on the line several times and went bust, that's the kind of person it takes to 'live the dream.'

David Williams.I read an interview in Playboy magazine January 2005 (Playboy article by Pat Jordan, Is This Man the Future of Poker?) where David said he started online with like $100 or $500 and turned it into 5k. He then went on to make a lot more money.His story inspired me to learn the game. I deposited $75 into poker stars and started from there. I cashed in some cardplayer freerolls and added that to my br. I also did soome bonus whoring. My bankroll is now around 6k. Most of it from cash games.

[game breaker 0]

Todd Brunson = Trust fundand I don't care how low those people started, it is nothing compared to how low we are arguing against. example: .5/1 with $50 bnk roll or .25/.50I bet those guys played 5-10 at Mayfair club, plus you have to factor in inflation from 25 years ago.

David Williams.I read an interview in Playboy magazine January 2005 (Playboy article by Pat Jordan, Is This Man the Future of Poker?) where David said he started online with like $100 or $500 and turned it into 5k. He then went on to make a lot more money.

You still haven't argued against my point, I bet David had enough gamble to go up limits much quicker than the people we are arguing against do. In fact he pretty much had to be a luckbox or moving up super quickly to get to the point he did at such a young age with such a low starting pool of money.