copernicus 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Anyone saying fold ATs in level 1 for @ a cost of 1% of our stack because we could be dominated, or face the possibility of losing that 1% to a raise should not be playing poker in the 1st place.Thats a pretty strong statement, given that I dont think you can find a single pro who would recommend limping with AT unless its suited (there may be some confusion early on in the thread about whether the issue is AT or AT suited.The point isnt only how it is fairly easy to be dominated, but also how difficult it is to play most flops out of position. Its a hand you can lose a lot with but arent likely to win a lot with. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Its a hand you can lose a lot with but arent likely to win a lot with.without at least Ace Up, I'm not sure a decent player would lose a lot.AT off, I do fold.ATs I'm in, unless crazy aggressive table Link to post Share on other sites
rivergirl 2 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 i think it's important to see as many flops as possible in the first few rounds of an MTT just because when the blinds start rising you don't want to run out of hands. So to maximize my chip count at early part of tourney i try to limp with as many decent hands as possible. i also try not to raise alot early in tourney, unless i pick up an absolute monster or i have an optimal position to steal.With that said, i have to agree with Royal there is nothing wrong with trying to limp in here. You just have to learn to exercise control when playing it postflop. And if a raise does come, don't be afraid to lay it down for the initial 1% of your stack. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 FWIW I fold ATs there. I also fold AJos, and probably limp AJs. For whatever arbitrary reason, that's my cutoff. If I'm in a crappy mood I fold AJs and AQos as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Thats a pretty strong statement, given that I dont think you can find a single pro who would recommend limping with AT unless its suited (there may be some confusion early on in the thread about whether the issue is AT or AT suited.The point isnt only how it is fairly easy to be dominated, but also how difficult it is to play most flops out of position. Its a hand you can lose a lot with but arent likely to win a lot with.well thats the whole point, It is suited. I'm not playing A.10 there to make TP, I'm lookin to hit that monster, or possibly take a small pot with TPTK uncontested.On another note, I've noticed ever since i started playing Tournaments regularily that i become a bit more loose early on.I used to be a really TAG tourney player, and had decent results, but i've since switched my style a bit and realised i can pick up a lot more scared money early and not be in a panic by the time 1st break comes.Its not as extreme as Zimmer, who says he busts early or goes deep, but its a nice medium of a similar idea, and that in combination with a solid understanding of HOH2 really helped improve my MTT results. Link to post Share on other sites
copernicus 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 well thats the whole point, It is suited. I'm not playing A.10 there to make TP, I'm lookin to hit that monster, or possibly take a small pot with TPTK uncontested.OK...youre statement isnt quite as extreme. ATs is probably in the playing range in EP of about 25% of the deepstack tourney recommendations Ive seen. Link to post Share on other sites
cdipierr 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I supposed I shouldn't have said I fold AT and play AJ here because that created way more heartburn than it should have. Don't get me wrong, I think it's fine to play AT if you want to for 1% of your stack so long as your postflop play is good. What I was getting at was I don't see how people can fold decent or semi-decent hands UTG for a limp. It seems silly to save 1% when the reward can be huge.If we put AT/AJ aside, what pocket pairs are you guys throwing away here? Honestly, to me, I'm not ditching a single one if I can get in on level 1 for a limp. If I limp 44, see a flop of A K 7 it's obviously going in the muck to a bet, but if I see a flop of A K 4, I'm going to get paid huge. To me, that's worth the 1%. Link to post Share on other sites
copernicus 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I supposed I shouldn't have said I fold AT and play AJ here because that created way more heartburn than it should have. Don't get me wrong, I think it's fine to play AT if you want to for 1% of your stack so long as your postflop play is good. What I was getting at was I don't see how people can fold decent or semi-decent hands UTG for a limp. It seems silly to save 1% when the reward can be huge.If we put AT/AJ aside, what pocket pairs are you guys throwing away here? Honestly, to me, I'm not ditching a single one if I can get in on level 1 for a limp. If I limp 44, see a flop of A K 7 it's obviously going in the muck to a bet, but if I see a flop of A K 4, I'm going to get paid huge. To me, that's worth the 1%.I dont think many would fold any pocket pair in EP if there is a reasonable chance that it will only cost 1%. The starting hand recommendations of the pros assume a solid game where almost no pot goes unraised preflop, and the 1% is almost always wasted without seeing a card for the effort.I forget whether it was this or another recent thread that noted that limping is contagious in soft online games, and I agree with that. If thats the profile of your table you have huge implied odds from a pocket pair and folding would be terrible. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I forget whether it was this or another recent thread that noted that limping is contagious in soft online games, and I agree with that. If thats the profile of your table you have huge implied odds from a pocket pair and folding would be terrible.Ya, there is a huge difference in tables in online games.Its very easy for players to bust and reload into another tourney 5 seconds later. which is why you could get a very agressive player at your table.after a rotation or two, we should have enough info to know if a limp will be raised or not. Link to post Share on other sites
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