Society Without Religeon

[Balloon guy 158]

Inheriting traits has nothing to do with accepting the theory of evolution. People have known for millenia that tall parents have tall children and smart parents have smart children, generally speaking.

I understand that you feel you can be an evolutionist and not like the brutality of survival of the fittest. But that is the core of the doctrine of evolution. The strong survive, the weak die.Hitler tried to purify the human race and clean the gene pool by killing the retarded, homosexuals, gypsies and Jews. ( And Czechs, Poles, etc. )Now having said that I also believe Hitler was doing this more for political control and power than belief that he was serving mankind. He twisted the ideas of evolution to give himself license to kill people. He needed a scape gaot, and the Jews served his need for a myriad of reasons not the least of which is that they were better educated and wealthier than the average German at the time.As a Christian I have to 'defend' the same thing, power hungry men that used Christianity to gain more power. Why should your side get off scott free?If we get the Crusades, you get the Holocaust. If we get the Inquisistion, you get Communism.If you agree that men used the religious structure of the world at the time to gain their own personal goals, I will grant you the same courtasy regarding Communism and Nazism. Otherwise, my side is ahead 5 million to 500 million deaths. Care to compare soup kitchens?

[Loismustdie 0]

I understand that you feel you can be an evolutionist and not like the brutality of survival of the fittest. But that is the core of the doctrine of evolution. The strong survive, the weak die.Hitler tried to purify the human race and clean the gene pool by killing the retarded, homosexuals, gypsies and Jews. ( And Czechs, Poles, etc. )Now having said that I also believe Hitler was doing this more for political control and power than belief that he was serving mankind. He twisted the ideas of evolution to give himself license to kill people. He needed a scape gaot, and the Jews served his need for a myriad of reasons not the least of which is that they were better educated and wealthier than the average German at the time.As a Christian I have to 'defend' the same thing, power hungry men that used Christianity to gain more power. Why should your side get off scott free?If we get the Crusades, you get the Holocaust. If we get the Inquisistion, you get Communism.If you agree that men used the religious structure of the world at the time to gain their own personal goals, I will grant you the same courtasy regarding Communism and Nazism. Otherwise, my side is ahead 5 million to 500 million deaths. Care to compare soup kitchens?

(Loudly applauding) I don't get to do this much in this forum, well said.

[Mattnxtc 0]

Don't know of much evidence that exists for his motives being Evolution based. I don't think you have ever made any claims and backed it with fact. Try some of these for size...I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work. [Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . we need believing people. [Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of 1933]My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed. [Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922, published in My New Order, quoted in Freethought Today April 1990]I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp. 46]What we have to fight for...is the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp. 125]This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp.152]And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp.174]Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another... while the enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, pp.309]I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so [Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]Any violence which does not spring from a spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest in a fanatical outlook. [Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf, p. 171]I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 1]I was not in agreement with the sharp anti-Semitic tone, but from time to time I read arguments which gave me some food for thought. At all events, these occasions slowly made me acquainted with the man and the movement, which in those days guided Vienna's destinies: Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 2]...the unprecedented rise of the Christian Social Party... was to assume the deepest significance for me as a classical object of study. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]Political parties has nothing to do with religious problems, as long as these are not alien to the nation, undermining the morals and ethics of the race; just as religion cannot be amalgamated with the scheming of political parties. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]For the political leader the religious doctrines and institutions of his people must always remain inviolable; or else has no right to be in politics, but should become a reformer, if he has what it takes! [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]In nearly all the matters in which the Pan-German movement was wanting, the attitude of the Christian Social Party was correct and well-planned. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]It [Christian Social Party] recognized the value of large-scale propaganda and was a virtuoso in influencing the psychological instincts of the broad masses of its adherents. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]If Dr. Karl Lueger had lived in Germany, he would have been ranked among the great minds of our people. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 3, about the leader of the Christian Social movement]Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 5]I had so often sung 'Deutschland u:ber Alles' and shouted 'Heil' at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 5]Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 5]I soon realized that the correct use of propaganda is a true art which has remained practically unknown to the bourgeois parties. Only the Christian- Social movement, especially in Lueger's time achieved a certain virtuosity on this instrument, to which it owed many of its success. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 6]Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 7, reflecting on World War I]The more abstractly correct and hence powerful this idea will be, the more impossible remains its complete fulfillment as long as it continues to depend on human beings... If this were not so, the founders of religion could not be counted among the greatest men of this earth... In its workings, even the religion of love is only the weak reflection of the will of its exalted founder; its significance, however, lies in the direction which it attempted to give to a universal human development of culture, ethics, and morality. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 8]To them belong, not only the truly great statesmen, but all other great reformers as well. Beside Frederick the Great stands Martin Luther as well as Richard Wagner. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 8]The fight against syphilis demands a fight against prostitution, against prejudices, old habits, against previous conceptions, general views among them not least the false prudery of certain circles. The first prerequisite for even the moral right to combat these things is the facilitation of earlier marriage for the coming generation. In late marriage alone lies the compulsion to retain an institution which, twist and turn as you like, is and remains a disgrace to humanity, an institution which is damned ill-suited to a being who with his usual modesty likes to regard himself as the 'image' of God. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 10]Parallel to the training of the body a struggle against the poisoning of the soul must begin. Our whole public life today is like a hothouse for sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill of fare served up in our movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you will hardly be able to deny that this is not the right kind of food, particularly for the youth...Theater, art, literature, cinema, press, posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestations of our rotting world and placed in the service of a moral, political, and cultural idea. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 10, echoing the Cultural Warfare rhetoric of the Religious Right]But if out of smugness, or even cowardice, this battle is not fought to its end, then take a look at the peoples five hundred years from now. I think you will find but few images of God, unless you want to profane the Almighty. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 10]While both denominations maintain missions in Asia and Africa in order to win new followers for their doctrine-- an activity which can boast but very modest success compared to the advance of the Mohammedan faith in particular-- right here in Europe they lose millions and millions of inward adherents who either are alien to all religious life or simply go their own ways. The consequences, particularly from a moral point of view, are not favorable. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 10]The great masses of people do not consist of philosophers; precisely for the masses, faith is often the sole foundation of a moral attitude. The various substitutes have not proved so successful from the standpoint of results that they could be regarded as a useful replacement for previous religious creeds. But if religious doctrine and faith are really to embrace the broad masses, the unconditional authority of the content of this faith is the foundation of all efficacy. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 10]Due to his own original special nature, the Jew cannot possess a religious institution, if for no other reason because he lacks idealism in any form, and hence belief in a hereafter is absolutely foreign to him. And a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imagined which lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form. Indeed, the Talmud is not a book to prepare a man for the hereafter, but only for a practical and profitable life in this world. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 11]The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 11]....the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 11, precisely echoing Martin Luther's teachings]Faith is harder to shake than knowledge, love succumbs less to change than respect, hate is more enduring than aversion, and the impetus to the mightiest upheavals on this earth has at all times consisted less in a scientific knowledge dominating the masses than in a fanaticism which inspired them and sometimes in a hysteria which drove them forward. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 1 Chapter 12]The greatness of every mighty organization embodying an idea in this world lies in the religious fanaticism and intolerance with which, fanatically convinced of its own right, it intolerantly imposes its will against all others. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 1 Chapter 12]The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 1 Chapter 12]All in all, this whole period of winter 1919-20 was a single struggle to strengthen confidence in the victorious might of the young movement and raise it to that fanaticism of faith which can move mountains. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 1 Chapter 12]Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin the fight for the 'remaking' of the Reich as they call it. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1]Of course, even the general designation 'religious' includes various basic ideas or convictions, for example, the indestructibility of the soul, the eternity of its existence, the existence of a higher being, etc. But all these ideas, regardless of how convincing they may be for the individual, are submitted to the critical examination of this individual and hence to a fluctuating affirmation or negation until emotional divination or knowledge assumes the binding force of apodictic faith. This, above all, is the fighting factor which makes a breach and opens the way for the recognition of basic religious views. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1]Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1]A folkish state must therefore begin by raising marriage from the level of a continuous defilement of the race, and give it the consecration of an institution which is called upon to produce images of the Lord and not monstrosities halfway between man and ape. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2]It would be more in keeping with the intention of the noblest man in this world if our two Christian churches, instead of annoying Negroes with missions which they neither desire nor understand, would kindly, but in all seriousness, teach our European humanity that where parents are not healthy it is a deed pleasing to God to take pity on a poor little healthy orphan child and give him father and mother, than themselves to give birth to a sick child who will only bring unhappiness and suffering on himself and the rest of the world. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2]That this is possible may not be denied in a world where hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people voluntarily submit to celibacy, obligated and bound by nothing except the injunction of the Church. Should the same renunciation not be possible if this injunction is replaced by the admonition finally to put an end to the constant and continuous original sin of racial poisoning, and to give the Almighty Creator beings such as He Himself created? [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2]For the greatest revolutionary changes on this earth would not have been thinkable if their motive force, instead of fanatical, yes, hysterical passion, had been merely the bourgeois virtues of law and order. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2]It doesn't dawn on this depraved bourgeois world that this is positively a sin against all reason; that it is criminal lunacy to keep on drilling a born half-ape until people think they have made a lawyer out of him, while millions of members of the highest culture-race must remain in entirely unworthy positions; that it is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate in the present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs are trained for intellectual professions. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2]It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2]Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 5]For how shall we fill people with blind faith in the correctness of a doctrine, if we ourselves spread uncertainty and doubt by constant changes in its outward structure? ...Here, too, we can learn by the example of the Catholic Church. Though its doctrinal edifice, and in part quite superfluously, comes into collision with exact science and research, it is none the less unwilling to sacrifice so much as one little syllable of its dogmas... it is only such dogmas which lend to the whole body the character of a faith. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 5]The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 10]In the ranks of the movement [National Socialist movement], the most devout Protestant could sit beside the most devout Catholic, without coming into the slightest conflict with his religious convictions. The mighty common struggle which both carried on against the destroyer of Aryan humanity had, on the contrary, taught them mutually to respect and esteem one another. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 10]For this, to be sure, from the child's primer down to the last newspaper, every theater and every movie house, every advertising pillar and every billboard, must be pressed into the service of this one great mission, until the timorous prayer of our present parlor patriots: 'Lord, make us free!' is transformed in the brain of the smallest boy into the burning plea: 'Almighty God, bless our arms when the time comes; be just as thou hast always been; judge now whether we be deserving of freedom; Lord, bless our battle!' [Adolf Hitler's prayer, Mein Kampf, Vol. 2 Chapter 13]The Government, being resolved to undertake the political and moral purification of our public life, are creating and securing the conditions necessary for a really profound revival of religious life [Adolph Hitler, in a speech to the Reichstag on March 23, 1933]I go the way that Providence dictates with the assurance of a sleepwalker. [Adolf Hitler, Speech, 15 March 1936, Munich, Germany.]Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the *poison of immorality* which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of *liberal excess* during the past ... (few) years. [The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872]Atheist Hall Converted Berlin Churches Establish Bureau to Win Back WorshippersWireless to the New York Times.BERLIN, May 13. - In Freethinkers Hall, which before the Nazi resurgence was the national headquarters of the German Freethinkers League, the Berlin Protestant church authorities have opened a bureau for advice to the public in church matters. Its chief object is to win back former churchgoers and assist those who have not previously belonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership.The German Freethinkers League, which was swept away by the national revolution, was the largest of such organizations in Germany. It had about 500,000 members ... [New York Times, May 14, 1933, page 2, on Hitler's outlawing of atheistic and freethinking groups in Germany in the Spring of 1933, after the Enabling Act authorizing Hitler to rule by decree]

Lets understand something about hitler though. He rarely said things that were true. His words are about as real as when a politician stands up on the podium and talk about God. Rarely do they mean it. Hitlers motive was to cause people to hate the Jews so of course he appealed to the christian motive and so forth. I highly doubt that Hitler was a christian.

[Sluggo 0]

I understand that you feel you can be an evolutionist and not like the brutality of survival of the fittest. But that is the core of the doctrine of evolution. The strong survive, the weak die.Hitler tried to purify the human race and clean the gene pool by killing the retarded, homosexuals, gypsies and Jews. ( And Czechs, Poles, etc. )Now having said that I also believe Hitler was doing this more for political control and power than belief that he was serving mankind. He twisted the ideas of evolution to give himself license to kill people. He needed a scape gaot, and the Jews served his need for a myriad of reasons not the least of which is that they were better educated and wealthier than the average German at the time.As a Christian I have to 'defend' the same thing, power hungry men that used Christianity to gain more power. Why should your side get off scott free?If we get the Crusades, you get the Holocaust. If we get the Inquisistion, you get Communism.If you agree that men used the religious structure of the world at the time to gain their own personal goals, I will grant you the same courtasy regarding Communism and Nazism. Otherwise, my side is ahead 5 million to 500 million deaths. Care to compare soup kitchens?

There's a key difference between evolution and religion. The first is an idea and the second is a group philosophy. There's no "evolutionist" side. Evolution is an idea. That's it. Whether someone accepts it or not. There's no side. There's no group. "Evolutionists" don't get together and meet. Religion, however, is different. There are groups who identifiy themselves as part of a particular religion. They DO get together and meet.No one ever kills someone in the name of evolution.The murderer may believe in evolution and kill someone, but evolution is never the reason or stated reason for killing a person.

[Loismustdie 0]

There's a key difference between evolution and religion. The first is an idea and the second is a group philosophy. There's no "evolutionist" side. Evolution is an idea. That's it. Whether someone accepts it or not. There's no side. There's no group. "Evolutionists" don't get together and meet. Religion, however, is different. There are groups who identifiy themselves as part of a particular religion. They DO get together and meet.No one ever kills someone in the name of evolution.The murderer may believe in evolution and kill someone, but evolution is never the reason or stated reason for killing a person.

Evolution is an idea. So, it's not fact? Gosh, who knew.

[crowTrobot 2]

Evolution is an idea. So, it's not fact?

it's both

[MDXS 0]

it's both

Word.

[MDXS 0]

Relevant article about the detrimental effects of religion on society.

[Balloon guy 158]

No one ever kills someone in the name of evolution.The murderer may believe in evolution and kill someone, but evolution is never the reason or stated reason for killing a person.

Evolution has at it's core the belief that the strong must survive and the weak must die in order to protect and advance the species.Hitler taught that the Jews were inferior, that Aryans were pure and that their blood was the best blood in the world. To mix Jewish blood into German blood would dilute and dimish the advancements that the German people have made, through breeding and genes.If that is not the most clear cut definition of an evolutionist idea, than I don't know what is.I do grant you though that evolutionist are not an organized and centrally controlled group that have an agenda ( other than fooling themselves )So instead of dealing with evolutionist and equating Hitler, I will stick to strictly God-less countries and governments.You get Communism/Marxism. I get Christianity.Again 5 Million deaths in 2000+ years, to 500 million in less than 100 years.Societies without religion are cruel, murdering, art-less, soul-less, concrete jungles with 1950's cars forever.Societies with religion have problems, have stupid people, and are capable of henious acts, BUT they have freedoms, art, schools, hospitals, soup kitchens, houses of worship, softball leagues, orphanages, etc.I notice there is never a large line at the airline counter for people to vacation in countries that deny God, but everyone and his brother wants to go to countries that have Religious freedoms.

Relevant article about the detrimental effects of religion on society.

That was silly, the guys a doofbag.

[MDXS 0]

That was silly, the guys a doofbag.

Why, because it contradicts everything you say? Point out some flaws in methodology or come up with some refuting data.

Societies without religion are cruel, murdering, art-less, soul-less, concrete jungles with 1950's cars forever.Societies with religion have problems, have stupid people, and are capable of henious acts, BUT they have freedoms, art, schools, hospitals, soup kitchens, houses of worship, softball leagues, orphanages, etc.

Which one better describes Iran?

[Sluggo 0]

Evolution has at it's core the belief that the strong must survive and the weak must die in order to protect and advance the species.Hitler taught that the Jews were inferior, that Aryans were pure and that their blood was the best blood in the world. To mix Jewish blood into German blood would dilute and dimish the advancements that the German people have made, through breeding and genes.If that is not the most clear cut definition of an evolutionist idea, than I don't know what is.

Nope. This is a lie. It's untrue. Evolution has no "core beliefs." It makes no judgments. It offers no directive.Evolution is merely an observation. An observation that states how the gene pools of species has changed over time.Your argument that the strong must survive and the weak must die is ludicrous. How do you explain mice having a much more robust population than lions? Aren't lions stronger? By definition, the stronger creatures are the ones that survive. Your logic is circular.

Societies without religion are cruel, murdering, art-less, soul-less, concrete jungles with 1950's cars forever.Societies with religion have problems, have stupid people, and are capable of henious acts, BUT they have freedoms, art, schools, hospitals, soup kitchens, houses of worship, softball leagues, orphanages, etc.

Which one better describes Japan?

[Balloon guy 158]

Nope. This is a lie. It's untrue. Evolution has no "core beliefs." It makes no judgments. It offers no directive.Evolution is merely an observation. An observation that states how the gene pools of species has changed over time.Your argument that the strong must survive and the weak must die is ludicrous. How do you explain mice having a much more robust population than lions? Aren't lions stronger? By definition, the stronger creatures are the ones that survive. Your logic is circular.

Dude, I am not so sure we are both using the same English. I guess you will 'define' your side of the arugument to fit your point, which leaves me with 2 cards in a 5 card game. Good luck

Which one better describes Japan?

The Japan of the Shogun Fuedal system? Or the Japan of the WWII imperialism? Or the Japan of corrupt corporations that devistated their economy? Besides I was under the impression most Japanese were Buddist and Shintoist (sp) There are other religions besides the Christian ones.Oh that's right, you get to redefine everything to fit your world view.

[Sluggo 0]

If you think my logic is flawed, please explain how it's flawed. Evolution is an observation that explains reality. It's not a belief system.

Societies without religion are cruel, murdering, art-less, soul-less, concrete jungles with 1950's cars forever.

This description does not fit Japan. Japan has an extremely low violent crime rate. Japan has the world's premier car companies.You have no clue about Japan. Almost no one is Shinto there.On the other hand, Iran is a religious state that fits the above description much better than Japan.

[DerekTah 0]

If you think my logic is flawed, please explain how it's flawed. Evolution is an observation that explains reality. It's not a belief system.This description does not fit Japan. Japan has an extremely low violent crime rate. Japan has the world's premier car companies.You have no clue about Japan. Almost no one is Shinto there.On the other hand, Iran is a religious state that fits the above description much better than Japan.

Scientificly its not a belief system, but those who try to pervert science into their own goals can easily make it become one. Evolution is not a belief system, social darwinism is a belief system.

[Loismustdie 0]

Why, because it contradicts everything you say? Point out some flaws in methodology or come up with some refuting data.Which one better describes Iran?

I swear. You guys are supposed to be smart. The sins of the minority should not be layed at the feet of the majority. That rationale is just plain retarded. 1 carpenter kills somebody, in the name of carpentry- are the other 10 carpenters who have never harmed anyone killers as well? Now, insert Ice Cream man, Restaurant server, Homeless guy, Magazine editor, using the same ratio of killer to non- killer. I shouldn't have to say see my point- it's loud and clear. So, once and for all, shut up about religion being bad for society. It clealy does infinitely more good than bad.

[MDXS 0]

I swear. You guys are supposed to be smart. The sins of the minority should not be layed at the feet of the majority. That rationale is just plain retarded. 1 carpenter kills somebody, in the name of carpentry- are the other 10 carpenters who have never harmed anyone killers as well? Now, insert Ice Cream man, Restaurant server, Homeless guy, Magazine editor, using the same ratio of killer to non- killer. I shouldn't have to say see my point- it's loud and clear. So, once and for all, shut up about religion being bad for society. It clealy does infinitely more good than bad.

Clearly, that's why the Middle East is the paradise it is. Obviously, it's infinitely better. What was I thinking? The article and the data it is based on suggests that societies that are more religious have higher homicide rates and teenage pregnancies than less religious societies. Correlation is not causation, but this does give you pause, right? This isn't what you'd expect if religion does infinitely more good, correct?

[mcsoupman 0]

My thought on the OP,Man is inherently evil. With or without organized religion evil happens because our root nature is self preservation. Self preservation and fear make a deadly cocktail. Sometimes self preservation produces order, but other times it means anarchy. We all have potential for good, but we all exhibit strong potential for bad also. I can be your friend, but in one moment of jealous rage I could kill you. I think most of us have to work hard at being good to others.Most religions' design is to create order, but when my order and your order collide, watch out!Just my rambling.

[Loismustdie 0]

Clearly, that's why the Middle East is the paradise it is. Obviously, it's infinitely better. What was I thinking? The article and the data it is based on suggests that societies that are more religious have higher homicide rates and teenage pregnancies than less religious societies. Correlation is not causation, but this does give you pause, right? This isn't what you'd expect if religion does infinitely more good, correct?

What percentage of the world is the middle east? In the middle east, what percentage of the citizens actively participate in hate crimes/war because of religion? I assume, since you play poker, you can handle basic math. So, freakin do the math, man. Once again, I truly believe you are smarter than that.

My thought on the OP,Man is inherently evil. With or without organized religion evil happens because our root nature is self preservation. Self preservation and fear make a deadly cocktail. Sometimes self preservation produces order, but other times it means anarchy. We all have potential for good, but we all exhibit strong potential for bad also. I can be your friend, but in one moment of jealous rage I could kill you. I think most of us have to work hard at being good to others.Most religions' design is to create order, but when my order and your order collide, watch out!Just my rambling.

Well said again. I may have found an ally of sorts. Yipee.

[mcsoupman 0]

Well said again. I may have found an ally of sorts. Yipee.

Whatever makes you happy. JK. Hate to see a guy working it all alone. Its a dark, dark, mixed up world.Just trying to keep some good dialogue going. I got your back brutha.

[the shank 0]

it would be much better world obviously. dont spend too much time daydreaming about it though since it wont happen anytime soon