If You Figure Out How To Play Jj Please Tell Me

[darkrider88 0]

Ok heres the situation, first big live tournament for me (200.00 buy in, 30 people).Table is extremely LAG, and everyone is pretty skilled.Blinds: $2-$4My Stack: $160.I am UTG+1. UTG is extremely LAG, and the button appears to be a little TAG, but very aggressive as well (30 minutes into tourney at this point). UTG Raises to $10Hero (JJ) Reraises to $50 Folded to ButtonButton: Raises to $200 and is all in.UTG Thinks for a minute and folds.Hero:???Any help would be appreciated.

[sdnuol 0]

play it the same way UTG did

[SavageHenry 0]

unfortunaltey i think this a fold unless you have a strong read that suggests the 3rd raiser is doing this with AK or a pair worse than JJ. The 3rd raise is usually regardless of how laggy someone is a biggish pair.

[darkrider88 0]

unfortunaltey i think this a fold unless you have a strong read that suggests the 3rd raiser is doing this with AK or a pair worse than JJ. The 3rd raise is usually regardless of how laggy someone is a biggish pair.

Well that was what made it tough. My read was that he didn't have a monster, and that he was just pushing so he didn't get drawn out on. He even whispered to a friend "I don't want to get sucked out on". It defintely wasn't aces. I didn't think he would do it w/ 10's, the question was was he protecting a big pair of AK. Couple of people say I should call there because I'm getting almost 2-1, but I'm not sure that is correct.

[SavageHenry 0]

nah you shouldnt call if you think its an overpair. youd need to be getting 4 to 1 if your just making an odds play. i think if my fuzzy math is correct your getting 2.5 to 1 or so which its a good call if he has AK. wait.. your read is he doesnt have a monster but doesnt want to get drawn out on ? that seems kind of contradictory. if he doesnt have a monster than why is he worried about getting drawn out on ?

[subsin 0]

seems like QQ to me, MAYBE KK, but more likely QQ, find a better spot, it would be different if u were in position and he acted before you

[copernicus 0]

Well that was what made it tough. My read was that he didn't have a monster, and that he was just pushing so he didn't get drawn out on. He even whispered to a friend "I don't want to get sucked out on". It defintely wasn't aces. I didn't think he would do it w/ 10's, the question was was he protecting a big pair of AK. Couple of people say I should call there because I'm getting almost 2-1, but I'm not sure that is correct.

It is correct....or it isnt.You have to put him on a range of hands and value it vs 2:1. I would put him on TT+, AK, AQ. That makes it an easy call. If you eliminate AQ, still an easy call. If you make his range QQ+, AKo, AKs you are only a 63:36 dog...close but still not 2:1 against. Early in the tourney I would even take this slight edge.

[darkrider88 0]

It is correct....or it isnt.You have to put him on a range of hands and value it vs 2:1. I would put him on TT+, AK, AQ. That makes it an easy call. If you eliminate AQ, still an easy call. If you make his range QQ+, AKo, AKs you are only a 63:36 dog...close but still not 2:1 against. Early in the tourney I would even take this slight edge.

Well that was what I ended up thinking when i did my post-mortem. After the hand he flipped up AK of diamonds. Should have called, but there is always tomorrow.

[copernicus 0]

Well that was what I ended up thinking when i did my post-mortem. After the hand he flipped up AK of diamonds. Should have called, but there is always tomorrow.

Yeah, when AK is in his range its very rare to not have a call, since there are 16 of those and 6 of each possible pair (that you dont have), so there has to be more than 5 pairs in his range to kill 2:1 odds, and if you add AQ to his range then youve always got a call, assuming 22, 33 arent raising.

[darkrider88 0]

Yeah, when AK is in his range its very rare to not have a call, since there are 16 of those and 6 of each possible pair (that you dont have), so there has to be more than 5 pairs in his range to kill 2:1 odds, and if you add AQ to his range then youve always got a call, assuming 22, 33 arent raising.

Just out of curiosity, do you like his play? It worked this time, but that's because I made an error.

[copernicus 0]

Just out of curiosity, do you like his play? It worked this time, but that's because I made an error.

Im not thrilled with his push, no. Hes got position and is offering good odds that makes a call very likely and mathematically correct. If he were OOP Id like it a lot more.

[SavageHenry 0]

so you just call and hope to hit an A or K ? i think coming over the top with AK suited is the right play. You only unhappy if one of the first two raisers calls with AA or KK and chances are if they don't have one of those two hands your taking the 66 in the middle without a fight and racing against QQ.shrug.

[trystero 0]

so you just call and hope to hit an A or K ? i think coming over the top with AK suited is the right play. You only unhappy if one of the first two raisers calls with AA or KK and chances are if they don't have one of those two hands your taking the 66 in the middle without a fight and racing against QQ.shrug.

Right. Only two hands you hate, you don't mind racing for chips, and then there is fold equity, as evidenced by the OP's fold. The AKs wasn't in position, anyhow.

[copernicus 0]

Right. Only two hands you hate, you don't mind racing for chips, and then there is fold equity, as evidenced by the OP's fold. The AKs wasn't in position, anyhow.

AKs was on the utton, no? and yes, I mind racing from behind for all my chips, and i dont care about fold equity...I want to make money on my premium hands and can outplay anything but a flopped set with position.

[Actuary 3]

The AKs wasn't in position, anyhow.

it was the Button, so that's in position**************no way I"m re-raising to 50 and 1/3 my stack and folding preflop.Especially when you say it's a Lag /aggresive table******************many of the tourney posters need to stop thinking we might be against an overpair, or at best a race, and take more time to consider the card combinations and pot odds.**************I'm probably pushing AKs here as well preflop if Button

[trystero 0]

AKs was on the utton, no? and yes, I mind racing from behind for all my chips, and i dont care about fold equity...I want to make money on my premium hands and can outplay anything but a flopped set with position.

my bad, I misread and had UTG as the A-Ks.

[copernicus 0]

it was the Button, so that's in position**************no way I"m re-raising to 50 and 1/3 my stack and folding preflop.Especially when you say it's a Lag /aggresive table******************many of the tourney posters need to stop thinking we might be against an overpair, or at best a race, and take more time to consider the card combinations and pot odds.**************I'm probably pushing AKs here as well preflop if Button

but you hate post flop play

[darkrider88 0]

yea def should have called PF. But I made up for it tonight, and this time played JJ the right way.Live and learn

[Actuary 3]

but you hate post flop play

yeah, and I like fold equity, since you have some regardles of the odds.I also prefer to see the whole board and not 60% of it when I'm putting in 25% of my stack with AK.

[copernicus 0]

yeah, and I like fold equity, since you have some regardles of the odds.I also prefer to see the whole board and not 60% of it when I'm putting in 25% of my stack with AK.

Except your putting in 100% of your stack to see the whole board, 25% of your stack to see 60% of it.

[Actuary 3]

Except your putting in 100% of your stack to see the whole board, 25% of your stack to see 60% of it.

yeah, and letting undepairs fold when A/K hits the flop, and folding A/K when it doesn't hit the flop but would have hit the turn/river and sometimes they fold preflop.

[copernicus 0]

yeah, and letting undepairs fold when A/K hits the flop, and folding A/K when it doesn't hit the flop but would have hit the turn/river and sometimes they fold preflop.

Not if they know what they are doing. And sometimes they know what they are doing with AA or KK, and sometimes they blah blah blah.It all boils down to one thing...if its mathematically correct for them to call your push...which it is in this case (given the assumed pushing range)....youre giving them an edge and the push is wrong.

[Actuary 3]

Not if they know what they are doing. And sometimes they know what they are doing with AA or KK, and sometimes they blah blah blah.It all boils down to one thing...if its mathematically correct for them to call your push...which it is in this case (given the assumed pushing range)....youre giving them an edge and the push is wrong.

you sound confident.can you put some numbers together and assume first raiser has a hand and calls sometimes.

[copernicus 0]

you sound confident.can you put some numbers together and assume first raiser has a hand and calls sometimes.

Not sure what youre looking for that isnt in my first post in the thread. for him not to call he would have to narrow your range to AA, KK, AK

[zimmer4141 0]

I think the reraise is too big. I call given how you have played it. I'm not putting in 1/3 of my stack pf with JJ and folding to 1 opponent.As for the other debate, AKs, I jam this preflop. We have fold equity even to the raise and reraise, and are likely at worst racing. Position is almost meaningless here because the pot is so big that we fold UI and jam if we improve.