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A Message To Daniel


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hey howie I don't think this is really you but just in case it is, I want you to know a few things1. your sister is *hot* man! 2. you're a dorko3. your DVD's are the biggest waste of $%#$ that I ever made4. your sister's DVD's really ROCKwhat I really don't get is that you supposedly taught her how to playbut she is sooooo much better than youhow do you 'xplain that dude?ok that's about itthanks for chiming in you imposter you

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There are three major issues. First, the number of tournaments is limited by the agreements between the WPT and the host casinos. Second, the release and the broad rights the WPT feels like it should have in terms of our name and likeness are completely unfair, particularly considering they don’t pay for those. We have no choice in the matter. And finally the structures of the final tables. These are all fixed in all WPT events and that’s a big problem because you have these great tournaments that have taken four or five days to get down to six players and then it’s over in four hours. That’s a real shame.
I'm with you Howie. Just because it's a WPT event, why should they get to make the rules.I mean thats just absurd.p.s I was looking to play a SNG on full-tilt yesterday, but the blinds go up so quickly. This is seriously affected my ability to find a game. Call me.
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The reason you can't win an antitrust case is as follows:You are players not a competing poker tour. Their monopoly exists only because no other option exists not because of unfair business practices.And no, unlike Raymer, I am not a lawyer...I am however a law student
Another good point.While I don't disagree with some points that the lawsuit brings up. I also don't think they have a very strong case.
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We've tried very hard since November to negotiate a settlement of the release with the World Poker Tour. We were bargaining in good faith as best we could. There are some very important elements of that release that are completely unacceptable. There are other issues beside the release, but the release was the thing that got us here. There are three major issues. First, the number of tournaments is limited by the agreements between the WPT and the host casinos. Second, the release and the broad rights the WPT feels like it should have in terms of our name and likeness are completely unfair, particularly considering they don't pay for those. We have no choice in the matter. And finally the structures of the final tables. These are all fixed in all WPT events and that's a big problem because you have these great tournaments that have taken four or five days to get down to six players and then it's over in four hours. That's a real shame. The problem is that the current release limits our choice. If I'm sitting in my house thinking, "Boy, I'd like to play in a $10,000 tournament somewhere," at least ten months of the year when the World Series isn't going on my choice is either to go to a WPT event and sign a release that violates many of the agreements I have with other vendors or not play. And I want to play. I want to compete. The WPT has the dominant market position in terms of those events representing the vast majority of the large buy-in televised tournaments out there. With that market dominance comes some responsibility. They have to treat the players fairly. It's in the best interest of poker, and it's in the best interest of the WPT to treat the players fairly.This is something that just needed to happen and because it's an anti-trust suit the seven of us could act as the proxy, the test case that would clear the way for everyone. The seven of us feel like we've been injured. We've been prevented from playing in these things for almost a year now and we just felt like it was time to do something. We know that the poker media is around here so we're taking some advantage of the fact that it's the World Series of Poker, but at the same time we felt it was very important that we show respect for the biggest and most prestigious poker tournament in the world and not announce it during the main event. We hope for a settlement that would be fair for everyone. We hope for a release that is fair for everyone where people can retain control of their names and likenesses. I want to make a very clear distinction. We're not saying there shouldn't be a release. There has to be a release. You have to let the WPT film the shows and air them in a show. There has to be a WPT on the Travel Channel. Without a release you can't do that. We're not suggesting otherwise. This is all about the use and the control of our names and likenesses, which is all we have outside of the shows. That's something we don't feel like we should have to give away for zero in a priced fixed market. I don't not mind opinions. That is what makes the world a better place. Feel free to reply.
Yes. Except for the double negative.
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I'm with you Howie. Just because it's a WPT event, why should they get to make the rules.I mean thats just absurd.p.s I was looking to play a SNG on full-tilt yesterday, but the blinds go up so quickly. This is seriously affected my ability to find a game. Call me.
So you don't think they should actually stick to the structure they posted for the event?I don't see how anyone would argue FOR them changing blinds and time of levels for the final table. Unless you enjoy flipping coints for millions of dollars. The levels and blinds should be pre-set, and stay that way until the event is over.
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Everyone talks about how the lawsuit by the 7 is bad for poker.But how much worse is it for poker for harrahs and the wpt to use anunprofessional and exploitative business model?Why dont these 2 huge corporations give up some of their money and treat the players better for the good of the game?I dont know about the wpt, but the amount harrahs is taking from the prizepool, in addition to tv rights, is just ridiculous.

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We’ve tried very hard since November to negotiate a settlement of the release with the World Poker Tour. We were bargaining in good faith as best we could. There are some very important elements of that release that are completely unacceptable. There are other issues beside the release, but the release was the thing that got us here. There are three major issues. First, the number of tournaments is limited by the agreements between the WPT and the host casinos. Second, the release and the broad rights the WPT feels like it should have in terms of our name and likeness are completely unfair, particularly considering they don’t pay for those. We have no choice in the matter. And finally the structures of the final tables. These are all fixed in all WPT events and that’s a big problem because you have these great tournaments that have taken four or five days to get down to six players and then it’s over in four hours. That’s a real shame. The problem is that the current release limits our choice. If I’m sitting in my house thinking, “Boy, I’d like to play in a $10,000 tournament somewhere,” at least ten months of the year when the World Series isn’t going on my choice is either to go to a WPT event and sign a release that violates many of the agreements I have with other vendors or not play. And I want to play. I want to compete. The WPT has the dominant market position in terms of those events representing the vast majority of the large buy-in televised tournaments out there. With that market dominance comes some responsibility. They have to treat the players fairly. It’s in the best interest of poker, and it’s in the best interest of the WPT to treat the players fairly.This is something that just needed to happen and because it’s an anti-trust suit the seven of us could act as the proxy, the test case that would clear the way for everyone. The seven of us feel like we’ve been injured. We’ve been prevented from playing in these things for almost a year now and we just felt like it was time to do something. We know that the poker media is around here so we’re taking some advantage of the fact that it’s the World Series of Poker, but at the same time we felt it was very important that we show respect for the biggest and most prestigious poker tournament in the world and not announce it during the main event. We hope for a settlement that would be fair for everyone. We hope for a release that is fair for everyone where people can retain control of their names and likenesses. I want to make a very clear distinction. We’re not saying there shouldn’t be a release. There has to be a release. You have to let the WPT film the shows and air them in a show. There has to be a WPT on the Travel Channel. Without a release you can’t do that. We’re not suggesting otherwise. This is all about the use and the control of our names and likenesses, which is all we have outside of the shows. That’s something we don’t feel like we should have to give away for zero in a priced fixed market. I don't not mind opinions. That is what makes the world a better place. Feel free to reply.
I agree with you that the release should be more fair to the player, but the thing is being unfair is not against the law. I am not a lawyer, and know very little about anti-trust law, but I get the sense that this is a lawsuit that cannot win based off of what I have read. Why should Joe Cardplayer support this lawsuit, and the seven players bringing it, when there is little chance of winning if the WPT decides not to settle and go on to trial, which it seems they are intent on doing. Also, there are going to be very strong negative externalities to this case, the most important being the possible negative impact on trying to save internet poker in the U.S.I get where you are coming from morally, and agree with you on a moral level, but what is your legal argument? Even if you cannot make money in WPT tournaments you can still make money in cash games and online tournaments, so they are not taking food out of your families mouths. I would really like to hear you legal reasoning behind this suit as what I have read from the other players leaves something to be desired.I have nothing but the utmost respect for you, but with all due respect having a bad blind structure is not against the law.
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Do bike riders sign away all their rights when they ride in the tour de france?How is this handled there?

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I have nothing but the utmost respect for you, but with all due respect having a bad blind structure is not against the law.
It's not that it's bad.It's good until the final table. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but then they decide when to up the blinds and how much, pretty much however they want. So they can move the show along.
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The reason you can't win an antitrust case is as follows:You are players not a competing poker tour. Their monopoly exists only because no other option exists not because of unfair business practices.And no, unlike Raymer, I am not a lawyer...I am however a law student
Graduate law school. They are making a Sherman Act section 1 claim. This doesn't require proof of monopoly position or acquisition and maintenance of monopoly through prohibited conduct. They allege horizontal price fixing. They need only prove that there is an agreement between competitors (casinos) to fix prices.Further, for this type of claim, they don't have to be a competing casino. As injured consumers they have standing to bring this type of action.
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So you don't think they should actually stick to the structure they posted for the event?I don't see how anyone would argue FOR them changing blinds and time of levels for the final table. Unless you enjoy flipping coints for millions of dollars. The levels and blinds should be pre-set, and stay that way until the event is over.
Well doesn't that depend on the player :club: some of those guys at the final tables need the all in coin flips. Or aren't we including those players in our free and open release.But I agree they should stick to the structure posted, which is what they do isn't it? If I understand Howies post, they always accelerate the structure for the final table.
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On the one hand the WPT has made you guys rich stars.On the other hand there are things to be improved.If this lawsuit was the last resort after failing to make headway by working directly then that's what it is.But make no mistake Howard. You 7 guys have hurt your selves in the long run. Even if you make a final table, you guys will get less face time, less total marketing time on the WPT. The editing room will dole out punishment for rocking the boat.I'm sure you know this, but win or lose, you guys have cut your own throats. I respect you for it.The government isn't going to go after online poker because of this lawsuit.Did anyone notice that they went after online poker BEFORE this lawsuit?Than why would this lawsuit change squat?You want to help the online poker world, start donating to a congressman's reelection campaign. Keeping the subject of poker out of the newspaper will do nothing for the current climate the online world is in. Until the politicians get a piece of the pie, they will stir up the waters.

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Just for the record, I believe that 'apologise' with an 's' is an acceptable British spelling of the word.
pretty sure howard is from washington or someplace else in the US
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The funniest thing about this thread is easily the responses either way claiming it to be legit or fake.It must be legit.........he quoted something from the circuit.It must be fake.........he misspelt something. :club::D:D

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Do bike riders sign away all their rights when they ride in the tour de france?How is this handled there?
Why in the farthest reachest of the imagination would anyone in the world CARE how the French do anything?
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I haven't disappeared. I am reading every single reply.
Howard, why haven't the seven of you tried to form a players union?The law is very powerful if you there was a players union with a couple thousand members, then the WPT would have to listen to you. A union is afforded rights that seven players by themselves are not.
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Howard, why haven't the seven of you tried to form a players union?The law is very powerful if you there was a players union with a couple thousand members, then the WPT would have to listen to you. A union is afforded rights that seven players by themselves are not.
If gambler's form a union, the world will end.
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I agree with you that the release should be more fair to the player, but the thing is being unfair is not against the law. I am not a lawyer, and know very little about anti-trust law, but I get the sense that this is a lawsuit that cannot win based off of what I have read. Why should Joe Cardplayer support this lawsuit, and the seven players bringing it, when there is little chance of winning if the WPT decides not to settle and go on to trial, which it seems they are intent on doing. Also, there are going to be very strong negative externalities to this case, the most important being the possible negative impact on trying to save internet poker in the U.S.I get where you are coming from morally, and agree with you on a moral level, but what is your legal argument? Even if you cannot make money in WPT tournaments you can still make money in cash games and online tournaments, so they are not taking food out of your families mouths. I would really like to hear you legal reasoning behind this suit as what I have read from the other players leaves something to be desired.I have nothing but the utmost respect for you, but with all due respect having a bad blind structure is not against the law.
I think your arguments have been shown to have no legal merit whatsoever in previous threads please don't continue down that same road.
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But I agree they should stick to the structure posted, which is what they do isn't it? If I understand Howies post, they always accelerate the structure for the final table.
I'm not so sure about that.I don't know if they have a system for it or not. Maybe they do. But I still don't agree with it. I don't see why it should be turbo once you hit the final table.
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If WPT has Never used a players name and likeness without consent, why is that in the release?
This is what I take issue with. I have read the WPT release, as well as drawn up many such releases in conjunction with a lawyer as I produce films. I have no fame to speak of, but the contract is so broad I'm not sure I would sign it just on principle.
It would be a shame for the WPTE to be sold, or for the controllers of this corporation to decide to start using their legal rights and pimping off all the players images to the highest bidder.
This is my other concern. If the WPTE is ever sold, the new controlling entity need not stay true to the spirit of the current WPTE owners. They will have free reign to do whatever they choose.The WPT contracts are terrible and need to be changed, but I am no lawyer so I do not know if this lawsuit is the best way to go about it. I hope it all works out.
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