Release Form For Wpt And Wsop

[dogfacepoker 0]

Does anybody know if there is any difference between the wpt and the wsop release form? I was just wondering if raymer and hachem had won their millions on the wpt tour would they be part of this lawsuit. Why is Howard, Annie, and Chris just now suing they have been playing on the wpt tour for years and have been signing the release forms. The forms could not have changed that much, and if the release forms and the wpt were that unfair you would think more than 7 players would file suit.

[loxo 0]

I'm pretty sure I've read they are different. I am by know means an expert though.

[dimseven 0]

Does anybody know if there is any difference between the wpt and the wsop release form? I was just wondering if raymer and hachem had won their millions on the wpt tour would they be part of this lawsuit. Why is Howard, Annie, and Chris just now suing they have been playing on the wpt tour for years and have been signing the release forms. The forms could not have changed that much, and if the release forms and the wpt were that unfair you would think more than 7 players would file suit.

Go to 2+2, do a search on Greg(FossilMan) and read a couple of his posts under the "account hacked?" thread. He talks about it

[LittleWyvern 0]

The two forms are different, though I'm not sure to what extent. I think that all the trouble comes about because of Howard and Annie's relatively recent affiliation with FullTilt and UltimateBet. When Howard Lederer was on the Circuit recently he explained that he has an exclusivity clause in his contract with Full-Tilt that makes it illegal for him to sign away his likeness rights. I assume that is why he was able to participate in the WPT in season 1, but now that he is a member of Team Full-Tilt, he can't.Thats just a guess though.

[bossyrossy 0]

The two forms are different, though I'm not sure to what extent. I think that all the trouble comes about because of Howard and Annie's relatively recent affiliation with FullTilt and UltimateBet. When Howard Lederer was on the Circuit recently he explained that he has an exclusivity clause in his contract with Full-Tilt that makes it illegal for him to sign away his likeness rights. I assume that is why he was able to participate in the WPT in season 1, but now that he is a member of Team Full-Tilt, he can't.Thats just a guess though.

Uuummmm this all sounds very interesting. Below posted by Greg Raymer"Let's hit this one issue at a time.Players popping into and out of empty seats:While I don't mind this very much, most of the people I'm playing against appear to find it very annoying. Therefore, I do what I can in the chat box to try and get the offending "poppers" to stop. If that doesn't work, I email support. If somebody is acting like a tool, I don't see why it's a bad thing to call them a tool.Reasons for the lawsuit.The players are paying all the legal bills, and there is not a single online site that is involved in any way whatsoever. We have publicly stated, and we sincerely mean, that we will not accept any settlement that only serves our personal best interests. We will not settle unless the WPT agrees to change their deleterious and illegal practices with respect to ALL players who enter into WPT events. So, while we are doing this for ourselves, we are also doing it for all of you who do already or might in the future play in WPT events.Validity of the lawsuit.It is my personal opinion, as a lawyer who studied antitrust law in Law School, that the WPT is violating the law. Much more importantly, it is the opinion of our attorneys, who are the preeminent sports antitrust lawyers in the world, that the WPT is violating the law.Daniel's actions re the lawsuit.Daniel did not go to law school, nor even to college. He knows nothing about the law, and has never studied it. However, he is openly and continually expressing his opinions about the lawsuit to the public. He knows or should know that his doing so will tend to turn at least some of the public opinion against the plaintiffs. And he knows or should know that his legal opinion is worthless, since he has zero training or experience in the area of antitrust law. Therefore, he is either stupid for repeatedly expressing an worthless opinion, or he is acting at the request of the WPT or one of their agents. Hence, I said he is stupid or a sockpuppet. I really don't see how there is a legitimate 3rd option.I know I sometimes express an opinion on an issue where I'm not an expert, but I pretty much always preface it with a reference to the fact that this is only my opinion, and that I'm not an expert. I have not seen Daniel do this.So, while there are very good reasons why I should have kept my mouth shut about Daniel and just continued to ignore him, I failed to do so. However, I have no problem with what I said. For some reason Daniel has decided to attack the 7 of us who are trying to help every player in the poker world, and I find that very distasteful. As far as I know, he never came up to any of us and asked us why we were doing this. As far as I know, he immediately decided (on his own or with the prompting of the WPT) that we were wrong, and went after us. I thought Daniel was smart enough to understand that maybe he should educate himself on an issue before jumping to (and publicizing) a conclusion. Maybe I was wrong.And to those of you who have supported me and our lawsuit in this thread, I express my thanks. As I said above, I am spending my own money, without any expectation of making a profit, let alone getting that money back, to help all of us. The only disappointment in this whole process to date has been those very few poker players who have posted here and on other forums their displeasure with us for our decision to file this lawsuit. I am sad that they don't understand how we are doing this to help them"Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)I would like to hear some views from Howard and some of the other pros invloved....anyone know of any posted anywhere?

[bossyrossy 0]

Daniel's actions re the lawsuit.Daniel did not go to law school, nor even to college. He knows nothing about the law, and has never studied it. However, he is openly and continually expressing his opinions about the lawsuit to the public. He knows or should know that his doing so will tend to turn at least some of the public opinion against the plaintiffs. And he knows or should know that his legal opinion is worthless, since he has zero training or experience in the area of antitrust law. Therefore, he is either stupid for repeatedly expressing an worthless opinion, or he is acting at the request of the WPT or one of their agents. Hence, I said he is stupid or a sockpuppet. I really don't see how there is a legitimate 3rd option."Er I do....option 3 is he is neither Stupid or a sockpuppet and when since to you have to have a college education to have a valid opinion?"

[spydergizard 0]

Daniel's actions re the lawsuit.Daniel did not go to law school, nor even to college. He knows nothing about the law, and has never studied it. However, he is openly and continually expressing his opinions about the lawsuit to the public. He knows or should know that his doing so will tend to turn at least some of the public opinion against the plaintiffs. And he knows or should know that his legal opinion is worthless, since he has zero training or experience in the area of antitrust law. Therefore, he is either stupid for repeatedly expressing an worthless opinion, or he is acting at the request of the WPT or one of their agents. Hence, I said he is stupid or a sockpuppet. I really don't see how there is a legitimate 3rd option."Er I do....option 3 is he is neither Stupid or a sockpuppet and when since to you have to have a college education to have a valid opinion?"

you mean, and since when do you have to have

[rivergirl 2]

all of these 7 players have opted to give up their own exclusivity rights to their respective online poker sites, so now they are complaining that they are ineligible for these tourneys because of their decisions to make money elsewhere. This was their own decisions and now it would seem that they are upset by what they have chose to do and are crying about it by bringing a lawsuit about. LOOK FOLKS, YOU CAN'T HAVE YOU'RE CAKE AND EAT IT TOO!!!! Has the WPT changed its release that drastically in the last few years that these players did not know what they were getting into when they signed their rights away in their own personal website contracts????? My guess, AND SINCE I HAVE NO LEGAL DEGREE OR ALOT OF INFORMATION ON THE SUBJECT THIS IS ONLY AN OPINION AND ONLY MY OPINION, IN NO WAY DOES IT REFLECT THE OPINION OF ANYONE ELSE. (my disclaimer) is that they've made a bad decision to sign rights away to their respective online sites, and now they are unhappy with said decisions because it limits their participation in WPT events so they are trying to have it both ways. I'm sorry ...you chose to do what you have done, now stop crying and grow up. It's not the WPT'S fault you did what you did, nor do i think they are to blame. I also feel very sorry for the respective internet sites when the 7 go off and sue them for violating their rights after they lose their suit against the WPT cause that will be their next course of action. BTW if this was so terrible why isn't Phil Hellmuth involved, (i know he's with UB and pretty much under contract similar to Annie) and he's still plays WPT events regularly. He is probably the most vocal.

[dimseven 0]

Here's one from Phil Gordon from Jan this year. It's from Bloch's site.-------Andy,As we have discussed, I too refuse to participate in anyWPT events until they "see the light" and make thechanges that are more player-friendly.The issue is clear: feel free to use me to promote yourshow, but that is all. The top players in the world haveendorsement agreements and products that they wishto sell -- having the WPT have an undeniable right touse the player for any purpose whatsoever makes itimpossible to give "exclusivity" to a company or acategory.For instance, the WPT could, conceivably, use my imageand tape from WPT: Bay 101 and WPT: Aruba to createan instructional video (though clearly, they would wantto eliminate the part where Juha Helpi ran me over whenwe played Head's Up). That video would compete withmy own instructional video, Expert Insight: Final Table Poker(www.expertinsight.com). I have an exclusivity clause withExpert Insight that I would be in violation of and theywould have clear legal stance to sue me!The WPT is run by Steve Lipscomb, an egomaniacal guywho has not respected the rights of the players that havemade him rich. Until he sees the light, he won't be seeingme. And, like you Andy, I don't think that not having methere will be any big burden to Steve -- they are stilldrawing near record fields to these events. But, I can notand will not support an organization I believe is bad forthe game.Phil Gordon

[Vandees 0]

I think I'll give my OPINION.1) Greg needs to apologize for his namecalling and wishing of ill will on Daniel.However, he is right in this regard: Daniel does not SEEM TO know the specifics of the lawsuit or case law involved. I could be wrong. There are currently several lawsuits that are pending or completed out there about exclusivity contracts and their legality (or in some cases, lack thereof). Raymer is a lawyer, and some of the other players are, too. I would trust their opinion over Daniel's when it comes to knowing if they have a case legally speaking.2) Daniel is welcome to his opinion, but he does need to elaborate on certain things, especially if he is going to remain this vocal and outspoken an opponent. If he would have just said one thing once and stopped it would be different. In general, it is OK to say "I can't tell you now" or "there are other things involved". This excuse is mute in a court or legal battle, because it will be publicized. So why not tell us what is involved? I'm left to wonder if some people (maybe DN?) may have some bad laundry aired in public. That is usually why things like that are said. 3) Everyone should save the drama for your baby's mama.

[rivergirl 2]

Lets start with: if the WPT didn't exsist, Phil Gordon would NOT have a market for his instructional video nor would he have crappy Celebrity Poker Showdown.What is with everyone in the United States (really no offense meant) thinking that it's ok to shift all the blame of your OWN mistakes by suing someone else for it.Maybe he should be suing expertinsight.com instead, since in all probablilty, it was the 2nd thing he signed, not the 1st.I agree it seems unfair that the WPT makes the players sign away certain things, but lets face it, you don't get something for nothing, at least not in the real world. There is a far better way to handle these situations...than to tie up the courts with a frivolous lawsuit. I'm sure if ALL the players came together and could agree on what needed to be changed and proposed the changes in a civil manner rather than a hostile "i'm gonna take my toys, go home and tell my mommy" attitude, changes might happen as people are more approachable when not threatened.As for the 7 involved, i really have to repeat myself in saying ...you knew the consequences of signing exclusivity deals ..you really need to own up to your actions and live with the decisions you've made. It's not wrong to try and bring change if you go about it in the right way. But the world does not revolve around you and not everyone has to cater to your needs.

[NoxKo 0]

Regardless of who's right and who's wrong, Raymer jumping on Daniel because of his lack of higher education and then calling him stupid is over the top.I didn't realize Raymer was such an a$$. He always seemed like one of the "good guys" to me. Oh well.

[Epistate 0]

Lets start with: if the WPT didn't exsist, Phil Gordon would NOT have a market for his instructional video nor would he have crappy Celebrity Poker Showdown.What is with everyone in the United States (really no offense meant) thinking that it's ok to shift all the blame of your OWN mistakes by suing someone else for it.Maybe he should be suing expertinsight.com instead, since in all probablilty, it was the 2nd thing he signed, not the 1st.I agree it seems unfair that the WPT makes the players sign away certain things, but lets face it, you don't get something for nothing, at least not in the real world. There is a far better way to handle these situations...than to tie up the courts with a frivolous lawsuit. I'm sure if ALL the players came together and could agree on what needed to be changed and proposed the changes in a civil manner rather than a hostile "i'm gonna take my toys, go home and tell my mommy" attitude, changes might happen as people are more approachable when not threatened.As for the 7 involved, i really have to repeat myself in saying ...you knew the consequences of signing exclusivity deals ..you really need to own up to your actions and live with the decisions you've made. It's not wrong to try and bring change if you go about it in the right way. But the world does not revolve around you and not everyone has to cater to your needs.

if the wpt didnt exist arguement is retarded. The WPT are a business and they made money off their show also. It is a mutually beneficial relationship are they are just trying to make sure it stays that way