not as many outs as i thought

[benhoug 0]

Last night I played an interesting hand at a .50/1 NL table on Poker Room.com. I had been playing for about 20 minutes and was in complete control of the table. I wasn't winning or losing much (probably up a few bucks) but I was definitely driving the action. I was raising most of the pots that I entered, and fortunately I was getting decent cards, so I was raising a lot. I was picking up blinds, which isn't too common at tables that low and my table image was very strong. Nobody wanted to get mixed up in a pot w/ me unless they had the goods. Then this hand happened...I had 7 8 in middle position, so of course, I raised it (4xbb to $2). My thinking being, my table image is strong so I may be able to pick up the blinds, if not this hand is very playable. A player in late middle position called and the player on the button raised to $5. Now I know the correct play is to fold there - out of position, margainal hand, but I really wanted to take a flop, so I called as did the player in late middle position.At this point I really thought I was up agains two big, big hands. Probably big pocket pairs, or 1 pocket pair and 1AK. I knew I was a dog, but if I hit the right flop I might be able to bust two guys.The flop came down 6 8 9 , which I thought was a marvelous flop for my hand. I had a pair and an open-ended straight draw. Not to mention a back-door flush draw. If my read was right and I was up against AA and QQ I would actually be a favorite to win the pot (AA 43%, QQ 8%, 7 8 46%).I led out w/ an approx. pot-sized bet of $15. The player in late middle position moved all in for another $25 as did the button. I wasn't crazy about that, but I didn't hate it either. With around $115 - $120 already in the pot I was getting close to 5/1 odds on my call, and if my read was right I was in great shape, so I called off the rest of my money thinking I was still a dog, but that I had plenty of outs.Unfortunately my read was waaaaay off, and I didn't have nearly as many outs as I thought. Actually I don't know if I could have been in much worse shape. The player in late middle position had 88 for a set of 8s (there goes 5 outs - 2 8s and 3 7s) and the button had 10 10 (there goes two more outs). So now instead of having 13 pure outs I was basically dead to a 5, or the case 10.Needless to say the board ragged off and the set of 8s held up. I know I probably shouldn't have been in the hand once I was re-raised, but I really wanted to bust those guys. It just goes to show, you don't always have as many outs as you think... I re-loaded for another 50 bucks, and soon enough I was back in business. I think playing that hand the way I did actually added to my table image and people were paying me off more than normal when I had a big hand. I ended up the session dead even, but learned some valuable lessons about image, driving action and calculating outs.

[SabaAba 0]

I think a call preflop was fine. I think you bet too much on the flop and then were pot committed to call. even with 5 outs, 5/1 is odds to call that. Regardless, see a flop and check it. You have a good hand on the flop, but as soon as two people already went all in, you could have gotten away from it and saved the $15 flop bet.

[vyrusguy 0]

so I called off the rest of my money thinking I was still a dog

...???

[benhoug 0]

so I called off the rest of my money thinking I was still a dog

...???

Flop:6 8 9 Odds of winning:AA - 43%QQ - 8%7 8 - 46%

[akishore 0]

ben, i think you played the hand perfectly.i also have a loose/aggressive style in NL table, and i also thrive on controlling the table and raising with a lot of hands. however, this style works greatly for me live, but online, i find a super-tight/aggressive style is most profitable because a lot of people online aren't even aware enough to know that someone is raising every other hand.regardless, your pre-flop play was fine. since the button only raised to $5, and since someone had already called your raise behind you before the button, your call was an absolute must. even though you were out of position, the pot was $10.50, and you had to call $3, giving you more than 3-1 odds. plus, the player behind you would likely call, so your implied odds are almost 5-1 ($14.50 for a $3 call). finally, these hands are monsters in NL, because if you get a good flop, you can really bust the big hands like AA/KK/AK. plus, with the possibility of busting both of them for an additional $80ish, your implied odds are HUGE.finally, i think you played the flop fine. your reads were solid, and given the fact that you had been so aggressive, it would have been a correct assumption in most cases to think that the players behind you held big hands. it's very realistic to think that the late position player was trying to trap you by slowplaying AA or something, and the button was trying to be aggressive with QQ or AK or such. with those reads, like you said, you are ahead.the only thing i might have done differently is to check this flop and hope that you only have to call a small bet to see the turn. if the turn doesn't help, you can either fold or see a cheap river. however, considering that you were most likely ahead of the other two hands, leading out and calling two all-ins was a fine play.i think you just got unlucky this hand that your opponents happened to have so many of your outs. it happens. you played this fine.good post,aseem

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

No limit is about breaking people, and one of the quickest ways people get their money in is with pocket pairs. Suited connectors are great hands for no limit cash games because you can drag big pots when you win and fold for small losses when you miss. If you were running over this table, already up, with a pair and open-ended, AND definitely getting odds to call to a straight draw... I say go for it. Just sucks that the situation you were up against effectively killed a lot of your draws.

[lies 0]

great postAs a few people mentioned, flop bet may have been a bit much, but it wasnt awful by any meansTable image really is everything as far as I am concerned.A big part of my NL play is pushing people around over and over again until they get sick of me betting (when they are sure I dont have anything), and that'll be my payout. Its about breaking people.I like this situation because it isnt cut and dry, suited connectors are a big payout in cash games and I am interested to see how other people would play them in this scenario.

[benhoug 0]

Hey guys, Thanks for all the encouraging posts. I'm glad to hear that most folks were on the same page as me w/ how I played the hand. I know I could have checked the flop, but I was really trying to stay aggressive aggressive aggressive. Actually I was hoping both players in the pot w/ me would call my bet, but like I wrote in the original post, I wasn't too upset when the player moved in on me.I for one wish we had more threads like this and less about "bankroll management" and "how old are you," as I feel people (myself included) genuinely learn from these type of posts.Ben

[Awful 0]

Hey guys,  Thanks for all the encouraging posts.  I'm glad to hear that most folks were on the same page as me w/ how I played the hand.  I know I could have checked the flop, but I was really trying to stay aggressive aggressive aggressive.  Actually I was hoping both players in the pot w/ me would call my bet, but like I wrote in the original post, I wasn't too upset when the player moved in on me.I for one wish we had more threads like this and less about "bankroll management" and "how old are you," as I feel people (myself included) genuinely learn from these type of posts.Ben

We do this kind of stuff over in strategy usually. drop by, I feel bad when there's just 6 of us over there (me, smash, wrto, akishore, Kdawg and whoever I'm missing) discussing every aspect of specific poker hands.