A Question For Non-believers

[Loismustdie 0]

My impression is that you are seriously misguided about your sense of religion. I will refrain from mocking you for being such a hard-liner. BTW, doesn't the Bible forbid gambling?

No.

[mrdannyg 274]

Millions of people have believed in God and Jesus, hundreds, thousands and hundreds of thousands walked with him. Some wrote books of him- both entities, which have been put into one book. Yet this is not enough. Why the hell would an explanation that they are simply not there because of statistics be enough for me? Your statement just proves the lengths you will go to cling to anything but God.

hundreds of thousands of people will also buy Paris Hilton's new album. Just sayin...

[Loismustdie 0]

Millions of people have believed in God and Jesus, hundreds, thousands and hundreds of thousands walked with him. Some wrote books of him- both entities, which have been put into one book. Yet this is not enough. Why the hell would an explanation that they are simply not there because of statistics be enough for me? Your statement just proves the lengths you will go to cling to anything but God.

One more thing before I go to work- I like Tim alot so I don't want to just yap at him and run. In order to prove, absolutely prove evolution you would need the proof that is missing. Scientist have shown the ability to manufacture evidence and to perpetuate lies just as much as any religous zealot who thinks it's a good idea to do such things- while I won't judge Science based solely on the lies it does make one wonder- how much does a certain percentage of scientist need this to be true? Also, I have seen the paltry few skeletons that have been found. What does it prove? That, just like humans, an animal can also be born deformed or retarded. There just isnt enough evidence.

hundreds of thousands of people will also buy Paris Hilton's new album. Just sayin...

You should chnage your name to Cleverbutpointless.

[BearCanada 0]

The fundamental flaw in what you are saying is you are assuming that if God exists he would not pass his message or insipiration on to a flawed character such as man. From the christian perspective God is rarely understood completely but more understood on His(I say His as an identifier, I dont believe God has a gender) terms. If God revealed everything to man, then it would make him less of God in my eyes. And if we WERE able to grasp everything that God is what is the purpose of worshipping Him? From the christian perspective God's only evidence of human representation came in the form of Christ as 100% man AND 100% God. Impossible you say? Its not logical? Well again I go to the point of what makes God God!? He is able to things that the human brain cant fully grasp. In the book of Revelation when John is retelling his experience of the end times he himself professes a lack of understanding of what his own eyes see. He simply does his best to make it discernable through written text.All this to say, the idea of a higher power dissolves if that higher power can be put into a box and study and understood. This is where 'faith' comes in. Now, a lot of 'religious leaders' and those in the public eye have watered down the fundamentals of a true spiritual experience with God for the masses to bring in more numbers. You have questioned whether or not God is capable of 'inspiring' man to write His words as a guide for this life. Again a supposition that God is limited in some way. If God is limited then He isn't God. It is against His nature.You may ask why would God create Adam and Eve if they were in capable of following Him even when He walked among them!? God created man so that man could worship Him. God created man with the ability to choose because He receives more glory out of a being that CHOOSES to worship Him than from one that is forced to worship Him. This is the fundamental struggle that has plaqued man since time began. Choosing right from wrong. Defining right from wrong. God gave man His Word as a guide to these things. I do believe, however, that there are those out there that would sabotage the will of God in many ways there are evil powers at work in this world. All the more glory goes to God for those who are able to live in a world of evil still choose Him. The Bible says that it will only get worse as time goes on. The Bible says there will be more false prophets on the rise and from you cynicism of 'religious leaders' Id be curious which leaders those are. I dont put much stalk in televangelists seeing as most of them are just looking for money for a new jet. Christianity is a majority in this country and persecution is almost non-existent for us so it is always hard to debate the majority without coming off as a conformist, but I truly believe that believing God doesnt exist at all seems naive since there is no evidence that he doesnt exist.

You have what I am saying backwards. I am saying that despite the fact that God is capable of anything God wants, man is flawed so yes God is quite capable of passing along his word his grace and his spirit in a way that is true. However, what I question is not God but man. I question everything about any human interaction with God. I question wether any sinner equiped with free will and choice is capable of retelling God's truth without human flaws and self interests becoming part of that message. To me that is the message of Genesis. Adam takes of the forbidden fruit, could God have intervened and stopped him. I believed God could have done that but didn't. I wonder if we all don't ignore God's true intent in favor of some forbidden fruit. Who knows where the starts and stops. Remember, at this point in my spiritual journey I consider myself an agnostic and not an athiest and my "beef" is with man and organized religion. Not God or some higher power that I have the humility to know I do not understand. To believe in the fundementals of any one religion is to believe that the fundementals of another religion is wrong, mistaken or at the very least misguided. Given the inherent condridictions and the ways in which the beliefs structures are at odds with one another, I'll take my chances that no one has it right. Is Jesus the Son of God? Is there a prophet coming that will once again lead the chosen to the promised land. Is the Quran a spiritually more acurate reflection of God's will then the bible? Do we enter the kingdom of heaven or go through a series of incarnations here on earth? On and on these kind of questions can and do go often with severe consequences (see: middle east). One thing I do believe is that if there is a higher power that power is not about human servitude. I do not believe that a higher power created this world so that that power would have something to worship it. That is one hundred percent my opinion but on a gut level that just doesn't strike me as true or right. However, I am a flawed sinner so there you go. -Bear

[mrdannyg 274]

You should chnage your name to Cleverbutpointless.

I agree, the fact that hundreds of thousands of people appreciate her, and there have been books written about her is pointless.

[Mercury69 3]

OK, wait a second here. I'll ask a specific question and anyone can answer:Is Loismustdie serious about his stance on Evolution? If so, what theory does he have that shows that something else happened and where's the proof? Quoted: Millions of people have believed in God and Jesus, hundreds, thousands and hundreds of thousands walked with him . Some wrote books of him- both entities, which have been put into one book. Yet this is not enough. Why the hell would an explanation that they are simply not there because of statistics be enough for me?Your statement just proves the lengths you will go to cling to anything but God.Rebuttal: What? WHAT? Prove to me, just one instance, that someone has WALKED WITH GOD. Just once. And I don't mean some figurative allegory. God is not outside us. God, or whatever you want to call "it", is inside us, creating a uniquely personal experience which occasionally results in something we don't understand, but that could easily be some kind of chemical reaction in your brain. It's harder to prove the existence of God than it is to prove the existence of countless centuries of fossilized remains. You're entitled to have your views on things, but you, Loismustdie, are coming across as condescending, arrogant and ill-informed. Don't you want to represent a little better than that?Oh, and God told me that the next time you don't capitalize the H in Him, he's going to "do" something to punish you.

[Loismustdie 0]

OK, wait a second here. I'll ask a specific question and anyone can answer:Is Loismustdie serious about his stance on Evolution? If so, what theory does he have that shows that something else happened and where's the proof? Quoted: Millions of people have believed in God and Jesus, hundreds, thousands and hundreds of thousands walked with him . Some wrote books of him- both entities, which have been put into one book. Yet this is not enough. Why the hell would an explanation that they are simply not there because of statistics be enough for me?Your statement just proves the lengths you will go to cling to anything but God.Rebuttal: What? WHAT? Prove to me, just one instance, that someone has WALKED WITH GOD. Just once. And I don't mean some figurative allegory. God is not outside us. God, or whatever you want to call "it", is inside us, creating a uniquely personal experience which occasionally results in something we don't understand, but that could easily be some kind of chemical reaction in your brain. It's harder to prove the existence of God than it is to prove the existence of countless centuries of fossilized remains. You're entitled to have your views on things, but you, Loismustdie, are coming across as condescending, arrogant and ill-informed. Don't you want to represent a little better than that?Oh, and God told me that the next time you don't capitalize the H in Him, he's going to "do" something to punish you.

I said people walked with Jesus you big dummy. Seriously? THAT'S your big issue with my statement? Arrogant? How? There are all kinds of fossilized remains- who said there wasn't? All I am saying is that they do not prove evolution, actually quite the opposite. They show order, not chaos, they show natural selection that rather than random looks quite methodical. For now though lets deal with the one statement I made earlier- fossilized remains that show a deformed animal are nothing more than that- a deformed animal. Tell me why that could not possibly be true. See, here is the thing. People get all up in arms when I make remarks about evolution and for the most part it's just disbelief,and why? Tell me one thing you know that is absolutely true about evolution that makes it to where it is such a truth that it should be taught in schools. Just one thing. Good luck.

[crowTrobot 2]

Nice try, but you're off in the wrong direction.

ok, but your first post was a little unclear lol. sounded like you were addressing those trying to rebut LMD's nonsense.

hundreds, thousands and hundreds of thousands walked with him

hundreds of thousands? i think you're slightly overestimating the population of the area in that time lol.

Some wrote books of him

well after the fact. there is no known contemporary reference to jesus.

which have been put into one book

there was more written about jesus that isn't in the bible than that is.

[crowTrobot 2]

They show order, not chaos, they show natural selection that rather than random looks quite methodical.

natural selection IS methodical and not random. as usual you're confusing genetic mutations which are random with the mechanism of natural selection which is not.

See, here is the thing. People get all up in arms when I make remarks about evolution and for the most part it's just disbelief,and why? Tell me one thing you know that is absolutely true about evolution that makes it to where it is such a truth that it should be taught in schools. Just one thing.

you should research it if you're really interested - with an open mind read something other than creationist-agenda literature for a change.

[Loismustdie 0]

natural selection IS methodical and not random. as usual you're confusing genetic mutations which are random with the mechanism of natural selection which is not.you should research it if you're really interested - with an open mind read something other than creationist-agenda literature for a change.

I have researched it, from both sides- there is no conclusive evidence.

[crowTrobot 2]

I have researched it, from both sides

since virtually all your anti-evolution comments are standard creationist arguments from 5-20 years ago, which are so badly outdated and obviously nonsensical in the light of modern evidence that leading creationists don't even use them anymore, it's obvious you haven't.

[Loismustdie 0]

since virtually all your anti-evolution comments are standard creationist arguments from 5-20 years ago, which are so badly outdated and obviously nonsensical in the light of modern evidence that leading creationists don't even use them anymore, it's obvious you haven't.

Since virtually all of your statements contain no proveable facts about evolution then I have to assume you have none. Case closed.

[MDXS 0]

I'm going to post this site again for everyone's benefit. I recommend that everyone fully explore it. Perhaps the best place to start is the ten myths about evolution page. It covers the favorites like "there are no intermediate forms" and "evolution is just random."

[crowTrobot 2]

Since virtually all of your statements contain no proveable facts about evolution then I have to assume you have none. Case closed.

obviously the case was already closed for you before any evidence was presented (and it was, check out the numerous links).not sure why though. again, lots of informed christians incorporate evolution into their belief, so it doesn't necessarily have to be risking the end of god for you if you allow yourself to objectively consider the evidence.

[Canada 0]

OK, wait a second here. I'll ask a specific question and anyone can answer:Is Loismustdie serious about his stance on Evolution? If so, what theory does he have that shows that something else happened and where's the proof?

LMD believes that

• dinosaurs didn't exist
• most scientists think the earth is less than a million years old
• the oceans would float off into air if there was no moon
• Noah's flood actually happened ~2600 BC
• The Bible was dictated by God - except those bits where there are inconsitencies
• Calling an all-in with A2o is a good idea

Please don't ask him to supply proof. It only gets in the way of the 'truth'

Quoted: Millions of people have believed in God and Jesus, hundreds, thousands and hundreds of thousands walked with him . Some wrote books of him- both entities, which have been put into one book. Yet this is not enough. Why the hell would an explanation that they are simply not there because of statistics be enough for me?Your statement just proves the lengths you will go to cling to anything but God.Rebuttal: What? WHAT? Prove to me, just one instance, that someone has WALKED WITH GOD. Just once. And I don't mean some figurative allegory. God is not outside us. God, or whatever you want to call "it", is inside us, creating a uniquely personal experience which occasionally results in something we don't understand

I think/hope that he is talking in the spiritual sense ie To walk with God == beleiving etc.If he is being literal that hundreds of thousands of Christians spent time near Jesus in the physical sense, then he is lying again

Oh, and God told me that the next time you don't capitalize the H in Him, He's going to "do" something to punish you.

FYPOHWGY

[Mercury69 3]

I have researched it, from both sides- there is no conclusive evidence.

M'kay

Since virtually all of your statements contain no proveable facts about evolution then I have to assume you have none. Case closed.

M'kay

[FOOSE1 0]

Anyway . . . this is exactly the types of responses I was looking for. The whole "you can't prove GOD exists . . . you can't prove GOD doesn't exist" arguments are getting old so I figured this would be a nice break. subtle sarcasm noted . . .

. . . I just quoted myself . . . in my own thread . . . lol

[Mercury69 3]

. . . I just quoted myself . . . in my own thread . . . lol

Hahaha...you rock!

[JadeTiger 0]

However, what I question is not God but man. I question everything about any human interaction with God. I question wether any sinner equiped with free will and choice is capable of retelling God's truth without human flaws and self interests becoming part of that message.

This is the part where I believe God is capable of 'inspiring' man to tell his story. If someone is 'inspired' by God I believe he is temporarily a vessel stripped of his own desires, will, and temptations so that he can convey a message that is pure and undefiled. (Again my interpretations from Scripture)

To me that is the message of Genesis. Adam takes of the forbidden fruit, could God have intervened and stopped him. I believed God could have done that but didn't. I wonder if we all don't ignore God's true intent in favor of some forbidden fruit. Who knows where the starts and stops.

Again this goes to the point that God desires to be worshipped WILLINGLY. He gets no Glory if he forces us to worship him. (Again from Scripture)

Remember, at this point in my spiritual journey I consider myself an agnostic and not an athiest and my "beef" is with man and organized religion. Not God or some higher power that I have the humility to know I do not understand. To believe in the fundementals of any one religion is to believe that the fundementals of another religion is wrong, mistaken or at the very least misguided. Given the inherent condridictions and the ways in which the beliefs structures are at odds with one another, I'll take my chances that no one has it right. Is Jesus the Son of God? Is there a prophet coming that will once again lead the chosen to the promised land. Is the Quran a spiritually more acurate reflection of God's will then the bible? Do we enter the kingdom of heaven or go through a series of incarnations here on earth? On and on these kind of questions can and do go often with severe consequences (see: middle east).

I somewhat disagree with this. I think it is nearly impossible for anyone to completely understand EVERY aspect of God and his character and will. Is it possible that I am right and you are wrong? yes. Is it possible I am wrong and you are right? yes. The problem I have is that if I am wrong I have lost nothing. If you are wrong, you may spend eternity in Hell. That is something I would never wish on anyone! Some would say I am spending my life duped into believing something because of some spiritual propaganda to influence the masses for some unknown ulterior motive. If I get to the end of my life and find out it was all a sham and that there is no God, what have I lost? Maybe some intellectuals would say I have wasted my life. Have I wasted my life if I have done things for the community, helping the poor, feeding the hungry, spreading a message of love and compassion? Even if it is for a spiritually 'mis-guided' reason, doesnt it improve society? I can deal with being wrong at the end of my life, knowing that worst case-scenario there is no heaven and I worm-food. Can you deal with being wrong at the end of your life , knowing that worst case scenario you have missed eternal Glory for eternal Hell? I know that this comes down to personal beliefs about the after life. Some believe in reincarnation and all that but im just talking specifically about Christianity right now, so please refrain from the numerous philosophies on the afterlife. This is just an example.I wanted to add also that I think everyone is on their own unique spiritual journey and will find their 'way' if they are honest with themselves. The problem is we are listening to so many things in this media age that tells us the 'best way to live'. My challenge is to seek your own answers. Im not here to convert anyone, but to say that i believe spirituality is an important part of who we are as human beings. it is something undeniable. We are not robots. And I think it is far less naive to think that there are things unexplainable in this world and I am ok attributing that to a higher power such as God. Am I right? Well I guess we will see. I believe I am but again thats just my opinion. Am I so hard headed that I could NEVER be proven wrong? no of course not. I would be a hypocrite if I took that stance. But so far, I have not had any reason to believe otherwise. My journey is ongoing, as should all of ours.

[Sluggo 0]

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/Luismustdie, please read these 29+ evidences for macroevolution and the critique and the rebuttal of the critique. Explain to me where the author is lying for each of the 29 points.

[MDXS 0]

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/Luismustdie, please read these 29+ evidences for macroevolution and the critique and the rebuttal of the critique. Explain to me where the author is lying for each of the 29 points.

Great link. Thanks for posting it.

[kerrdog1969 0]

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/Luismustdie, please read these 29+ evidences for macroevolution and the critique and the rebuttal of the critique. Explain to me where the author is lying for each of the 29 points.

If evoulution is the reason we are here today, then explain to me why all of a sudden it stopped. A monkey has not had a human in years.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

If evoulution is the reason we are here today, then explain to me why all of a sudden it stopped. A monkey has not had a human in years.

This is a joke, right. No one's really this ignorant, are they? Oh God, are there actually people like this around today? That's pretty scary.

[timwakefield 68]

If evoulution is the reason we are here today, then explain to me why all of a sudden it stopped. A monkey has not had a human in years.

You are kidding, right? This is Copernicus or somebody just messing around, right?

[Sluggo 0]

If evoulution is the reason we are here today, then explain to me why all of a sudden it stopped. A monkey has not had a human in years.SW

FYPJust in case you're ignorant, evolution is continuing and a monkey has never given birth to a human.At least you don't think evolution means Pikachu turning into Raichu.