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Zilem - The Epitome Of A Newb


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Sorry - I was just watching the circuit event and watched Zilem almost cry and then get very frustrated after being called by an inferior hand. Why is it that newbs always want people to call them with better hands? Generally I'm estatic when I'm called and find I'm a 4:1 favorite. If I lose, I lose; how is it that people get so mad about being so far ahead in a hand?Sorry, just needed to put that out there, it bugs crap out of me when newbs do this.

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i think that is indicative of all noobs, a noob doesn't see "4:1 favorite", he just sees a chance for someone to draw out on him; i think it is something we all experience when we are new to the game, after all he said he has only been playing for 9 months...as well, i think a lot of the young TV noobs who start playing think they have to adopt the Hellmuth-esque condition of acting disgusted whenever someone makes what they perceive as an inferior play.

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Because you don't want to be called when you are all-in, unless you have the nuts or you are a huge favorite where the other guy only has a couple of outs. You want that pot that is already sitting out there without any risk of getting knocked out. You figure you are safe because the other guy can't possibly call you risking so many chips where he is a 4 to 1 underdog.If you get called 4 times when you are all-in and you are a 4 to 1 favorite each time, odds are you will get knocked out, and it could be the first time you are all-in or anytime after that.If you don't get called, you can't get knocked out.I know what I wrote is obvious, but that is my answer to the question.

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If you get called 4 times when you are all-in and you are a 4 to 1 favorite each time, odds are you will get knocked out
???????i think odds are good that you would win is what i think you maent to say
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???????i think odds are good that you would win is what i think you maent to say
What I mean is if in a tournament, you get your all-in called 4 times during the tournament when you are a 4 to 1 favorite, odds are you do not win the tournament. If those 4 people folded instead of called, you can not get knocked out.
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i think the phrase "i'd rather be lucky than good" has been said too many times during the course of this tournament
Of all the cliches in poker, this is my least favorite. It's like nails on a chalkboard every time I hear it.
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What I mean is if in a tournament, you get your all-in called 4 times during the tournament when you are a 4 to 1 favorite, odds are you do not win the tournament. If those 4 people folded instead of called, you can not get knocked out.
ok, i see what you meant nowgood point :club:
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Remember Greg Raymer during the WSOP last year?He had pocket Kings and went all-in preflop and was called by I believe Tiffany Wiliamson with A-Q or A-J.Watching the cards come out, Raymer looked like he was gonna die. He was a 4 to 1 favorite, but his whole tournament was on the line. He did not want to be in that situation. You could tell by his face and actions he was not comfortable at all. You could tell he would rather not have been called.It is just different when you are all-in and can be knocked out. If he had alot more chips than Tiffany, yes, he would take that 4 to 1 all day.

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Remember Greg Raymer during the WSOP last year?He had pocket Kings and went all-in preflop and was called by I believe Tiffany Wiliamson with A-Q or A-J.Watching the cards come out, Raymer looked like he was gonna die. He was a 4 to 1 favorite, but his whole tournament was on the line. He did not want to be in that situation. You could tell by his face and actions he was not comfortable at all. You could tell he would rather not have been called.It is just different when you are all-in and can be knocked out. If he had alot more chips than Tiffany, yes, he would take that 4 to 1 all day.
?
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i can see why he was upset. When i lose i want to be outplayed not outlucked. If i bust because someone traps me with a big hand or catches me bluffing, or bluffs me off the best hand well kudos to them. I think Zilem honestly felt insulted that kido would call off his stack trying to hit a bad draw in a situation when most players would muck and look for a better oppurtunity. It would be one thing if kido raised him all in with the draw and zilem called but he called all when he had no fold equity and knew he had to be behind. it would be like a bubble situation when you have something like AQ and push in late position to take the blinds uncontested and a player who can bust you says " i know you have the best hand but im going to call with Krablar just because i think it would be funny to bust you on the bubble with krablar". that being said i like kido. He is entertaining tv.

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I am a noob so feel free to slap me around, but if everyone played every hand by the book, tournaments would last forever. Sometimes gambling with an unexpected play changes everything. There is a thread on here with players talking about their best playing 7-2o stories. One players suck out is another players miracle catch. It also completely screws your table image to other players. They won't know what the hell you are likely to do next.In a field that large with that many pros, an average guy is going to need a little luck. You gotta win your coin flips and taking a risk on a 4-1 shot isn't that crazy. By defintion 3 out of 4 times you will lose, but that 1 out of 4, isn't that the rush that we play for?

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Of all the cliches in poker, this is my least favorite. It's like nails on a chalkboard every time I hear it.
That's true, but I'd rather be lucky...okay, I won't do it.
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i think that is indicative of all noobs, a noob doesn't see "4:1 favorite", he just sees a chance for someone to draw out on him; i think it is something we all experience when we are new to the game, after all he said he has only been playing for 9 months...as well, i think a lot of the young TV noobs who start playing think they have to adopt the Hellmuth-esque condition of acting disgusted whenever someone makes what they perceive as an inferior play.
well i must amend this to a small degree, after just seeing Kido Pham's all-in suckout with J10o against Joe Hachem's KK on ESPN - Joe looked like he absolutely knew those Js were going to hit the flop...even saying in a very frustrated tone "why don't they ever believe me?!"
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...Joe looked like he absolutely knew those Js were going to hit the flop...even saying in a very frustrated tone "why don't they ever believe me?!"
*** THREAD HIJACK ALERT **** I'm rollin this ***** into my personal bad beat thread. That's me, baby. I know how JH feels. (well, except for the $7 mill in my pocket thing). This summer has been hell. I'm treading water online, but not live. Live, I've been ahead at the turn, knew it, went all-in to end the hand, but instead have been called and snapped RELENTLESSLY and I mean F-ING RELENTLESSLY by one and two outers this summer. I have a frickin SNAP ME OFF stamp on my forehead. Mathematical averages say I should be up around 10x of the bankroll I had this summer, but I'm sitting around 40% of it. How can I have run into so many players who both CALL *and* SUCKOUT? I have made three bad calls all summer. Three. I can tell you what they were and how much I lost on them. And no, I didn't suck out at any point.It's been so bad that I'm almost to the point of checking the turn when I'm ahead and letting the other guy's hand mature at the river and folding. A bad run can MESS WIT YO HEAD. So I pity JH.
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Of all the cliches in poker, this is my least favorite. It's like nails on a chalkboard every time I hear it.
Hehe...well, how about the one (which IMO is even worse) that Kido said after he hit his hand?"I felt it...I just felt it." THAT'S my least favorite. I even cringed when David Williams said it at the final table last year.
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I am a noob so feel free to slap me around, but if everyone played every hand by the book, tournaments would last forever. Sometimes gambling with an unexpected play changes everything. There is a thread on here with players talking about their best playing 7-2o stories. One players suck out is another players miracle catch. It also completely screws your table image to other players. They won't know what the hell you are likely to do next.In a field that large with that many pros, an average guy is going to need a little luck. You gotta win your coin flips and taking a risk on a 4-1 shot isn't that crazy. By defintion 3 out of 4 times you will lose, but that 1 out of 4, isn't that the rush that we play for?
This was a WSOP Circuit Event...the field was only 130 players or so. And, no, sucking out as a 4 to 1 dog is not why I play. It's forcing other players to suckout as 4 to 1 dogs over and over again....hence taking their money.
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Sorry - I was just watching the circuit event and watched Zilem almost cry and then get very frustrated after being called by an inferior hand. Why is it that newbs always want people to call them with better hands? Generally I'm estatic when I'm called and find I'm a 4:1 favorite. If I lose, I lose; how is it that people get so mad about being so far ahead in a hand?Sorry, just needed to put that out there, it bugs crap out of me when newbs do this.
I was laughing so hard I had to watch t 5 times. It was the greatest thing ever. This *** was calling people down wih gutshots and just two overs. But when a guy calls him with an actual drawing hand. He says" Why don't Iget more respect than that" lol. Then he crys and curses off like he is the best player of the world. Then he says I can see you calling me with Q high their, but how do you call just on adraw. it was the greates thing ever.
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I was laughing so hard I had to watch t 5 times. It was the greatest thing ever. This *** was calling people down wih gutshots and just two overs. But when a guy calls him with an actual drawing hand. He says" Why don't Iget more respect than that" lol. Then he crys and curses off like he is the best player of the world. Then he says I can see you calling me with Q high their, but how do you call just on adraw. it was the greates thing ever.
Yeah, I tried to leave this aspect out of it. For someone who got the nickname river rat or whatever after being there for only a couple of hours, he sure got offended that someone called and sucked out on him. He didn't seem to have a problem hitting his 45:1 or whatever to win. He might be one of the better players at Texas Tech, but that's not saying a whole lot.
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You gotta win your coin flips and taking a risk on a 4-1 shot isn't that crazy. By defintion 3 out of 4 times you will lose, but that 1 out of 4, isn't that the rush that we play for?
a 4-1 favorite should win 4 out of 5 times. technicalities aside, zilem looked like 4 year old who was just told it was time to brush his teeth and get ready for 8pm bedtime.
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a 4-1 favorite should win 4 out of 5 times. technicalities aside, zilem looked like 4 year old who was just told it was time to brush his teeth and get ready for 8pm bedtime.
I was going to leave this alone as two others said this too in the thread. Amazing how people come on here and talk about strat and odds, yet don't know what 4:1 means. They must have a stellar game.
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