timwakefield 68 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Okay there always seem to be rampant discussions about how and when you guys make these genius laydowns of KK preflop. So here's the situation last night: who folds KK here? Fairly early in a $20 tournament. Blinds 100/200. I have 3500 chips, opponent has 4500. Opponent limps from UTG. Folded to me on the button, I raise to 800 with KK. Big blind (who has a very large stack) calls, and UTG immediately pushes all-in. Who folds this?Mods please don't move this to strat. Link to post Share on other sites
turd ferguson 1 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Blinds 100/200. I have 3500 chipsThis is all the info you need to know that you don't fold KK here. Link to post Share on other sites
msals11 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 i dont... it very well could be AA.... but it also could be AK, QQ, or JJ, or even KK as well... the chances of it being AA are the same as QQ or JJ IMO, so i call... if it is AA, its bad luck, and you move on Link to post Share on other sites
Flack_attack 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Nope. Link to post Share on other sites
eYank 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 no way!u have like 17BB which isnt really that much so i think you def. callfor some reason i assume u called and he had AA and now u think u should have folded Link to post Share on other sites
sholden 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 insta-call Link to post Share on other sites
Vatche 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 im not folding KK here with 25% of my stack in the middle...espescially early in a tourny, if he has AA, more power to him. Link to post Share on other sites
PiercE^Bodog 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Nope.20$ turny? theres no question you call ecspecailly with the blinds being 100/200 Link to post Share on other sites
DudeSurprise 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I've seen this be 88-JJ too many times to ever fold Kings there. Especially with that shallow of a stack. It seems a lot of people hate playing mid pairs post flop, so they limp and then once someone raises they immediately think they have overs and push to get into a coinflip. Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Fairly early in a $20 tournament..NO. This is a small PP, QQ, or JJ more often than it is AA. You have to be VERY deep stacked, and have a lot more information than this to fold KK preflop, and this isn't even close. Link to post Share on other sites
RayPowers 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Do people really lay down KK preflop? I mean, when your opponent has not shown you two aces....I just don't see it. Taking from this year's WSOP, might as well provide another example. Who folds here?Thomas Keller EliminatedA player in early position makes it $400 to go. The action folds around to Thomas Keller who pumps it to $1,800. The action folds back around to the original raiser who pushes all-in for $11,475 more, covering Keller. Keller thinks for a short time and reluctantly calls, showing Kclub Kdiamond. His opponent shows Aspade Aclub. The flop comes Jspade 10heart 9heart. The turn brings the 10club and the river brings the 4diamond. Thomas Keller has been elimnated from the Main Event.Ray Link to post Share on other sites
Dhall901 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 LIMP UTG. IMMEDIATELY ALL-IN. It's a tough spot, but the lay down can be made. Of course, you still have a 13% chance of flopping that set! Now given the situation I can't say I would make the laydown..but I have before. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Thomas Keller EliminatedA player in early position makes it $400 to go. The action folds around to Thomas Keller who pumps it to $1,800. The action folds back around to the original raiser who pushes all-in for $11,475 more, covering Keller. Keller thinks for a short time and reluctantly calls, showing Kclub Kdiamond. His opponent shows Aspade Aclub. The flop comes Jspade 10heart 9heart. The turn brings the 10club and the river brings the 4diamond. Thomas Keller has been elimnated from the Main Event.RayI could fold this but I could not fold Tims hand his is an instacall Link to post Share on other sites
fckthis 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Okay there always seem to be rampant discussions about how and when you guys make these genius laydowns of KK preflop. So here's the situation last night: who folds KK here? Fairly early in a $20 tournament. Blinds 100/200. I have 3500 chips, opponent has 4500. Opponent limps from UTG. Folded to me on the button, I raise to 800 with KK. Big blind (who has a very large stack) calls, and UTG immediately pushes all-in. Who folds this?Mods please don't move this to strat.Meh, its early and I could suck out on his aces.Verdict=Call fast. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 insta-callIs there a faster way to call than "insta-call?" That would be what you should do. Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Do people really lay down KK preflop? I mean, when your opponent has not shown you two aces....I just don't see it. Taking from this year's WSOP, might as well provide another example. Who folds here?Thomas Keller EliminatedA player in early position makes it $400 to go. The action folds around to Thomas Keller who pumps it to $1,800. The action folds back around to the original raiser who pushes all-in for $11,475 more, covering Keller. Keller thinks for a short time and reluctantly calls, showing Kclub Kdiamond. His opponent shows Aspade Aclub. The flop comes Jspade 10heart 9heart. The turn brings the 10club and the river brings the 4diamond. Thomas Keller has been elimnated from the Main Event.RayIt is always going to be a tough fold but considering the guy moved in for 10x the previous raise Id say fold. I mean even if the guy has AK why do I want a three outer looming on my tournament life. Id much rather get in a situation where I have less pressure against my big hand. I completely understand the call but folding here would leave Thomas with plenty of chips to keep playing. It sounds like the blinds were 50/100 or so, so it doesnt seem right to go broke this early even with a hand as strong as KK. Again, Im not saying it wouldnt be extremely difficult to get away from but I can see a better spot to get all my money in...like maybe post flop when I have more info. If thomas was short stacked then you put it in and pray but otherwise let your skill get back that $1800 ... i mean two kings are just that...two kings. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I could fold this but I could not fold Tims hand his is an instacallAny poker player worth a damn makes the same call. If you can't battle preflop with KK, you don't deserve to be in the ME. Link to post Share on other sites
fatman 1 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I never fold so there is no way I am laying down KK. Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Any poker player worth a damn makes the same call. If you can't battle preflop with KK, you don't deserve to be in the ME.the reason its reasonable to fold is that the skilled players can get back the $1800 fairly easily in a better spot. I mean if TK only had $3800 in chips left after his $1800 its fair to say he is pot committed but if he has $6000+ its fair to say he can get it back. Only if you think you are LESS skilled than the table should you 'insta-call' this hand. Otherwise, pick a better spot and get them back. Link to post Share on other sites
Jadaki 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Do people really lay down KK preflop?I have 3 times since I started playing seriously, and only in cash games, never in tournaments. Two times it was the correct laydown. Link to post Share on other sites
SweetDaddyFreak 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 All you have to do is call and regardless what he has, just flop a King like usual Link to post Share on other sites
Scott3705 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I'm a KK preflop folder and this is nowhere near a fold for me. Link to post Share on other sites
DudeSurprise 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I have 3 times since I started playing seriously, and only in cash games, never in tournaments. Two times it was the correct laydown.Oh my. Hide the women and children, this may get ugly. Link to post Share on other sites
RuntCake 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 ...waits for the pic of Kathy Liebert. Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I'm a KK preflop folder and this is nowhere near a fold for me.What does that even mean? Link to post Share on other sites
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