Mel Gibson

[Mattnxtc 0]

Mel Gibson has always been out on the edge in terms of Christianity. His father was his teacher and well we have heard some crazy things from him. Lets just get it out there... He messed up. We all give in to temptations and well somethings we do are just stupidOn an aside, his blood alcohol level was only like .12...thats like 8 beers for him. I cant think he was that drunk with a level like that. Especially for somebody who battles alcohol addiction that seems very low. WHo knows what the real truth is

[MDXS 0]

1,000 Dutch points to whoever picks up on this reference....

+1 Douglas Adams

[Loismustdie 0]

It's Mel Gibson. Anybody who actually gets behind him as a representative for christianity is as crazy as he is. BTW, there is no excuse for drinking and driving. What, he couldn't get a ride? Must be tough hailing a cab/limo/helicopter/leerjet when you literally **** money.

[timwakefield 68]

+1 Douglas Adams

[DonkSlayer 1]

This is all a bunch of crap. Keith, are you converting tomorrow if Christians in the US denounce every one of their leaders who has ever sinned publicly? I think not. Wishing Christians were A. Perfect and B. had a philosophy that an athiest could "deal" with isn't realistic or fair, really. It seems very odd to me that athiests or non-christians want to talk about what's wrong with Christianity. Not like we're flying planes into buildings or sending out suicide bombers. DISCLAIMER: I am in no way endorsing the behavior of Mel Gibson during his DUI incident. Offer not valid in Alaska and Hawaii.

[JadeTiger 0]

no offense and these people may not represent you but jerry falwell, pat robertson and other vocally religious are extremely judgementaland drunk driving its just not defensible under any circumstancesmel has traditionally been very opinionated about how people should live and worship and he has proven himself not just to be flawed like we all are but a hypocritei feel that true christians should be vocal about those that are vocally judgemental yet fail to live up to anything close to a good effort at a good lifedrunk driving is very wrong whether you take out a dozen schoolkids or make it home safely - and a guy like gibson who is vocal about for instance accepting vatican 2 - started his own sect etc - slurs his so called faith with his behavior and anti-semetic views and should be held accountable for his real views and actionsthere are some things that you can apologize for - but being exposed as a viral anti-semite and blaming it on a few drinks is not at all crediblewe all know that alcohol - is a little like truth serum - it blocks the inner censor that says i shouldn't say this becuase it will make me look bad - and opens the world up to your true viewsi applaud christians who try to live good lives and try to help othersi virilently despise those who hold themselves up as superior for their faith yet call out for people to live a life they in no way live themselves

I have not condoned drunk driving at any point during this conversation. I personally do not drink because I have seen what alcohol has done to members of my family and think it can really destroy someones life. So I hope I havent come across as condoning alcoholism or drunk driving. My point is that this thread came off as a blast at someone because of their celebrity and how it lines up with their religious beliefs. My point has been that if Mel wasnt famous would you blast someone who is apologetic for driving drunk? Your point seems to be that even someone who is apologetic (sincere or not) should be judged by you because of his celebrity. My point is that if someone is apologetic we are to forgive and let God deal with that person. It is not our place to judge the contrition of the heart. If he isnt truly contrite then God will deal with him, if he is, and you are writing him off what does that say about you?I am not some huge Mel Gibson fan just trying to defend him, its the reasons for your anger that bother me. Anti-semitism or any discrimination for that matter, is abhorred by God, but so is all sin. That is my point. The only thing that makes Mel Gibson's drunk driving worse than any other sin in the eyes of God is the impact it has on others. Sin is sin. As for your reference to the aforementioned Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, well you are picking two of the most idiotic examples of christian representation. These guys CONTINUOUSLY make fools of themselves and have proven time and time again there lack of true christian representation. Id much rather you use the example of a christian who has maybe made a mistake and needed to publicly apologize because of their celebrity.

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

what are you looking at, sugar tits?

[speedz99 145]

what are you looking at, sugar tits?

Pretty much everything you say is hilarious while imagining Pacino screaming the words.A drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts.As an apatheist, I do not forgive Mel Gibson for his sins. I think he's a fucking idiot on many levels that deserves all the negative attention he gets. This amused me mostly becuase it made me think of a few Christians I know that adamantly refused to believe that Gibson is anti-semetic...

[mtdesmoines 3]

BTW, there is no excuse for drinking and driving. What, he couldn't get a ride? Must be tough hailing a cab/limo/helicopter/leerjet when you literally **** money.

+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1

1) This is all a bunch of crap. Keith, are you converting tomorrow if Christians in the US denounce every one of their leaders who has ever sinned publicly? I think not. 2) Wishing Christians were A. Perfect and B. had a philosophy that an athiest could "deal" with isn't realistic or fair, really.3) It seems very odd to me that athiests or non-christians want to talk about what's wrong with Christianity. Not like we're flying planes into buildings or sending out suicide bombers. 4) DISCLAIMER: I am in no way endorsing the behavior of Mel Gibson during his DUI incident. Offer not valid in Alaska and Hawaii.

1) +12) +13) +14) +1

[mtdesmoines 3]

FWIW: From Drudge. MEL SAYS SORRY TO THE JEWSTue Aug 01 2006 11:10:45 ETAugust 2, 2006 -- There is no excuse, nor should there be any tolerance, for anyone who thinks or expresses any kind of Anti-Semitic remark. I want to apologize specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said to a law enforcement officer the night I was arrested on a DUI charge. I am a public person, and when I say something, either articulated and thought out, or blurted out in a moment of insanity, my words carry weight in the public arena. As a result, I must assume personal responsibility for my words and apologize directly to those who have been hurt and offended by those words. The tenets of what I profess to believe necessitate that I exercise charity and tolerance as a way of life. Every human being is God’s child, and if I wish to honor my God I have to honor his children. But please know from my heart that I am not an anti-Semite. I am not a bigot. Hatred of any kind goes against my faith. I’m not just asking for forgiveness. I would like to take it one step further, and meet with leaders in the Jewish community, with whom I can have a one on one discussion to discern the appropriate path for healing.I have begun an ongoing program of recovery and what I am now realizing is that I cannot do it alone. I am in the process of understanding where those vicious words came from during that drunken display, and I am asking the Jewish community, whom I have personally offended, to help me on my journey through recovery. Again, I am reaching out to the Jewish community for its help. I know there will be many in that community who will want nothing to do with me, and that would be understandable. But I pray that that door is not forever closed.This is not about a film. Nor is it about artistic license. This is about real life and recognizing the consequences hurtful words can have. It’s about existing in harmony in a world that seems to have gone mad.

[keith crime 8]

I'd almost respect him more if he said - my dad hated jews, i've met a lot of jews - i can't stand themat least then it would be the truthgoing to rehab has been the traditional method of reputation repair for a celebrity - it's almost a clicheif mel is really so sorry - lets see him drop a mil or so to the anti defimation league

[JadeTiger 0]

I'd almost respect him more if he said - my dad hated jews, i've met a lot of jews - i can't stand themat least then it would be the truthgoing to rehab has been the traditional method of reputation repair for a celebrity - it's almost a clicheif mel is really so sorry - lets see him drop a mil or so to the anti defimation league

LOL oh so going to rehab is cliche an unacceptable form of contrition but throwing money at a problem is? Seems it is much easier for someone to write a check than it would be to be admitted to a rehab program. your enigmatic logic is never ending.

[keith crime 8]

LOL oh so going to rehab is cliche an unacceptable form of contrition but throwing money at a problem is? Seems it is much easier for someone to write a check than it would be to be admitted to a rehab program. your enigmatic logic is never ending.

well he's clearly not sorry a mil is a milthis guy was riding on top as a paragon of christian excellence a few years agowell he's been revealed as serial drunk driver who tries to use his influence to get away with it and a rabid anti-semite - if i was a serious christian i'd be upset = he's made your faith and all the people who lauded him look sillyhe's every bit the embarrassment that jerry falwell and pat robertson are

[JadeTiger 0]

well he's clearly not sorry a mil is a milthis guy was riding on top as a paragon of christian excellence a few years agowell he's been revealed as serial drunk driver who tries to use his influence to get away with it and a rabid anti-semite - if i was a serious christian i'd be upset = he's made your faith and all the people who lauded him look sillyhe's every bit the embarrassment that jerry falwell and pat robertson are

First of all I dont remember either of those showing any sign of humility at all, so to clump in with them is unfair. Secondly do not try and assess, through a forum, if I am a serious Christian or not. You dont know me. Thirdly, Mel Gibson is not a 'paragon of christian excellence'. Anyone, christian or otherwise, who views him that way is just ignorant. Do you even know what paragon means? At no point has Gibson ever claimed perfection. Be careful with hyperbole. The guy stepped out and made a very controversial movie based on the elements of his Faith. The fact that a Hollywood A list star would step out and do that is what thrust his film in the lime light. It has nothing to do with his claim to be of 'christian perfection' (an oxymoron in and of itself). You dont understand the true Christian perspective if you think the likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson define our Faith. There will always be bad-seeds. I have a few friends who are muslims and find it detestable that muslims would crash two airplanes into the Twin Towers in the name of Allah. The mistakes of a few do not define the point of view of the whole.Mel has made mistakes and is, for all we know, contrite. Does it make what he did right? No. That is why he is getting help. That is why he is trying to make amends. If you think its to protect his celebrity thats your perrogative but dont use the mistakes of one professed Christian to blanket the faith as judgemental and elitist.

[keith crime 8]

I never called out christians in generalBut Christians should call these guys who claim to be devout christians out when it is shown that they are full of it - as mel clearly isThe fact that you are apologizing for him and not deeply embarrassed by his conduct is disturbing if you indeed are a member of his religion - he has been tremendously vocal and tremendously lauded for his faitha celebrity mea culpa the next day is a farceIf Dustin Hoffman got drunk and called the pope names people would be a 100 times more upsetIn fact people are still angry at Sinead O'Connor who is in fact still a christian - she was booed off the stage the following week at a bob dylan concert yet i'm supposed to be impressed that Mel issued a press statement saying he was sorry? he's damn lucky he didn't kill someone - and he's clearly a bigotIf you have christian heroes - laud them to the high heavans even if its your mother but when these tremendously vocal christians show themselves to be hypocrites and charletans as mel has - have the guts to hold him accountable - without the well we all sin excusethat by the way is the exact same excuse that was given for keeping pedophile priests around to repeat their offenses which they did over and over againi'm not blanket criticizing all christians - but if I label myself something and someone who also labels themselves that shows themselves to be unworthy of my cause I'll call them out on it - in fact i hope i'll be the firsti'm not disillusioned with Mel gibson - i always had my doubts - if I were a christian who had looked up to him I'd be enraged to find out the truth

[JadeTiger 0]

I never called out christians in generalBut Christians should call these guys who claim to be devout christians out when it is shown that they are full of it - as mel clearly isThe fact that you are apologizing for him and not deeply embarrassed by his conduct is disturbing if you indeed are a member of his religion - he has been tremendously vocal and tremendously lauded for his faitha celebrity mea culpa the next day is a farceIf Dustin Hoffman got drunk and called the pope names people would be a 100 times more upsetIn fact people are still angry at Sinead O'Connor who is in fact still a christian - she was booed off the stage the following week at a bob dylan concert yet i'm supposed to be impressed that Mel issued a press statement saying he was sorry? he's damn lucky he didn't kill someone - and he's clearly a bigotIf you have christian heroes - laud them to the high heavans even if its your mother but when these tremendously vocal christians show themselves to be hypocrites and charletans as mel has - have the guts to hold him accountable - without the well we all sin excusethat by the way is the exact same excuse that was given for keeping pedophile priests around to repeat their offenses which they did over and over againi'm not blanket criticizing all christians - but if I label myself something and someone who also labels themselves that shows themselves to be unworthy of my cause I'll call them out on it - in fact i hope i'll be the firsti'm not disillusioned with Mel gibson - i always had my doubts - if I were a christian who had looked up to him I'd be enraged to find out the truth

See you arent listening. You are making assumption about that are unjustified. My whole point is that MAN is flawed and should not be worshipped or lifted up because of that fact. God is the only one to be worshipped and any christian or non christian who takes a man like Gibson or anyone else for that matter as a 'paragon' is just an idiot. My point is that Gibson is a man and is flawed and if showing contrition wishes to be forgiven, I will not disallow him that. That doesnt make me a Jew hater or make what he did any less upsetting. It just means I forgive him. If it is a repeated pattern and he continues to do it over and over again, his apologies will be less and less meaningful and I will of course reevaluate my prompt forgiveness. Exercising forgiveness proves I dont condone his actions but appreciate his contrition. Those are two seperate things and you are lumping them together. I find it hard to call someone a charlatan based on one incident that he has vocally apologized for. Generally charlatans are characterized by a pattern of lies or misrepresentation. Otherwise anyone who has every said something they didnt mean is a charlatan. I doubt you would hold the pretense that anyone is that above reproach. As far as continuing this Id love to go back and forth all day but I see its not really getting anywhere so Im done. GL to you in all future ventures. Maybe Ill see you around the forums on a less intense post.

[keith crime 8]

See you arent listening. You are making assumption about that are unjustified. My whole point is that MAN is flawed and should not be worshipped or lifted up because of that fact. God is the only one to be worshipped and any christian or non christian who takes a man like Gibson or anyone else for that matter as a 'paragon' is just an idiot. My point is that Gibson is a man and is flawed and if showing contrition wishes to be forgiven, I will not disallow him that. That doesnt make me a Jew hater or make what he did any less upsetting. It just means I forgive him. If it is a repeated pattern and he continues to do it over and over again, his apologies will be less and less meaningful and I will of course reevaluate my prompt forgiveness. Exercising forgiveness proves I dont condone his actions but appreciate his contrition. Those are two seperate things and you are lumping them together. I find it hard to call someone a charlatan based on one incident that he has vocally apologized for. Generally charlatans are characterized by a pattern of lies or misrepresentation. Otherwise anyone who has every said something they didnt mean is a charlatan. I doubt you would hold the pretense that anyone is that above reproach. As far as continuing this Id love to go back and forth all day but I see its not really getting anywhere so Im done. GL to you in all future ventures. Maybe Ill see you around the forums on a less intense post.

fair enough and i'm really not trying to be this antagonistici think there are many fine christians in this world my issue is that there are a lot who try to tell people how to live and try to enact legislation to these endsa lot of times they in turn are revealed to not practice what they preach and i wish people would speak out against these peoplechristians say forgive - but only if you accept their religion - they are fine about judging others that don't share their views and choose to live lives that they don't agree with live your life your way let me live mine and we'll all live in peace

[mtdesmoines 3]

if mel is really so sorry - lets see him drop a mil or so to the anti defimation league

Honestly ... it would be nothing to him. Ten mil would be nothing. In fact, I won't be surprised to see him do exactly that. Also, like I said in the first post, I can't know if he's sincere or not. But I look at the characters he portrays, and they're intense. Intense, man. I think that he's not doing much acting in these roles, it's his personality. And that personality type does these things without thinking. I don't happen to like that personality type, personally, and I think the things they do are tremendously destructive. Which is why we are having this discussion. However, that being said, I also think they (this personality type) sincerely regret things like this in the light of day and wish they weren't that way. Just my take.

this guy was riding on top as a paragon of christian excellence a few years ago

I don't think I accept this. Christ is at the head of the church. People are the body of the church. Your structural misunderstandings of what Christianity is are clouding your judgment of the institution.

[DonkSlayer 1]

What a minute....how many sides has a paragon?

[Mercury69 3]

azzshole doesnt even deserve punctuation

[mtdesmoines 3]

What a minute....how many sides has a paragon?

Apparently, one it it's a good paragon, two if it's a bad paragon.

[brvheart 1,752]

What an idiot.As an aside, I thought christians were all about slurirng jews.

This is simply stupid... no reply necessary.

too far for what? explain what Gibson's DUI does to your overall view of God/christians? hard to judge the whole by the acts of one...unless of course you are ignorant.

QFT... see above post.

I'm not judging all christiansI just wish more vocal - and wow he sure is vocal - christians would be more christlike he can drink all he wants but getting behind the wheel of a car where he can kill someone and then blaming it on the Jews - If I were Jesus I'd ask that my name be taken off that movieand yes i understand a flawed man can make a great religious movieguess the notions of whether or not he agrees with his dad has been spelled out thoughAdditionally, Christian leaders sure like to judge people, and wow they sure do wind up in the headlines themselves a lot

QFT... me too.

Bad sarcasm and a little toungue in cheek actually. Mel Gibson claims to be a christian and makes one of the most powerful movies of all time IMO. But yet he has his own demons and low and behold he gets drunk, drives and slurs some jews. WOW.So in one sense I was serious . . . if he really is a christian at heart (I believe he probably is) . . . then my statement is serious. On the other hand you will have others that will use this as a chance to bash all Christians because of Mel Gibson's serious lack of judgement. So in that instance it's kind of sarcastic, tongue in cheek(ish).So, I guess I should have clarified from the start. I think Mel Gibson has done great, great things for Christians worldwide with his movie. However . . . I think he did just as much harm for the same with his actions and comments which to me are inexcusable on a personal level.So again . . . christians aren't perfect . . . just forgiven.I actually couldn't agree with you more (as a Christian myself).

What makes you think that? Have you ever seen an interview with him? Nothing about how he lives or behaves has ever indicated fruit to me. I would be very interested in hearing any good reasoning as to why you believe this.

[speedz99 145]

This is simply stupid... no reply necessary.

Are you really that incapable of recognizing sarcasm?Oh, and what is this "slurring" nonsense? Is that really the correct word for this situation?

[JadeTiger 0]

What makes you think that? Have you ever seen an interview with him? Nothing about how he lives or behaves has ever indicated fruit to me. I would be very interested in hearing any good reasoning as to why you believe this.

Religion and Faith are two different things in my eyes. Most are undiscernable superficially. Gibson may be very religious but lacks true relationship with Christ that effects his lifestyle and general point of view. But then again he may be a tormented believer who struggles like we all do with our own demons. Hard to say. I dont want to be the one making the judgement call.

[FOOSE1 0]

What makes you think that? Have you ever seen an interview with him? Nothing about how he lives or behaves has ever indicated fruit to me. I would be very interested in hearing any good reasoning as to why you believe this.

First of all . . . I want to reiterate that I do not condone his actions. Earlier in this thread I stated such. I think a Christian, especially a public figure like Mel, should have used better common sense. BUT . . . just like every other Christian on here has said, nobody is perfect. He definately has some deep rooted personal demons that he needs to deal with. That still does not mean that he does not have the heart of a Christian. Sin does not take away that . . . if it did nobody could call themself a Christian. Yes I agree that his actions do not demonstrate the Christian lifestyle AT ALL. But from a Christian perspective the man put his character and career on the line to make a movie about Jesus Christ. This was not a fluff Hollywood movie. This was a hard core in your face movie about Jesus Christs death. To me, he would have only taken that risk if he was, at heart, a Christian.