keith crime 8 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 http://www.tmz.com/2006/07/28/gibsons-anti...leged-cover-up/ Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 What an idiot.As an aside, I thought christians were all about slurirng jews. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 What an idiot.As an aside, I thought christians were all about slurirng jews.well yeah but driving drunk was going too far Link to post Share on other sites
FOOSE1 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 http://www.tmz.com/2006/07/28/gibsons-anti...leged-cover-up/meh . . . christians are not perfect . . . just forgiven . . . Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 well yeah but driving drunk was going too fartoo far for what? explain what Gibson's DUI does to your overall view of God/christians? hard to judge the whole by the acts of one...unless of course you are ignorant. Link to post Share on other sites
FOOSE1 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 What an idiot.As an aside, I thought christians were all about slurirng jews. . . . never heard Christians were "all about slurring jews". I'm a Christian . . . never personally slurred a jew.too far for what? explain what Gibson's DUI does to your overall view of God/christians? hard to judge the whole by the acts of one...unless of course you are ignorant. That happens a lot here . . . Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 too far for what? explain what Gibson's DUI does to your overall view of God/christians? hard to judge the whole by the acts of one...unless of course you are ignorant.I'm not judging all christiansI just wish more vocal - and wow he sure is vocal - christians would be more christlike he can drink all he wants but getting behind the wheel of a car where he can kill someone and then blaming it on the Jews - If I were Jesus I'd ask that my name be taken off that movieand yes i understand a flawed man can make a great religious movieguess the notions of whether or not he agrees with his dad has been spelled out thoughAdditionally, Christian leaders sure like to judge people, and wow they sure do wind up in the headlines themselves a lot Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Dude, look at the source. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 meh . . . christians are not perfect . . . just forgiven . . .was this serious or a joke? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 http://www.tmz.com/2006/07/28/gibsons-anti...leged-cover-up/Huh. Mel Gibson ... is not Christ. ... Who would've thunk? Link to post Share on other sites
FOOSE1 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 was this serious or a joke?Bad sarcasm and a little toungue in cheek actually. Mel Gibson claims to be a christian and makes one of the most powerful movies of all time IMO. But yet he has his own demons and low and behold he gets drunk, drives and slurs some jews. WOW.So in one sense I was serious . . . if he really is a christian at heart (I believe he probably is) . . . then my statement is serious. On the other hand you will have others that will use this as a chance to bash all Christians because of Mel Gibson's serious lack of judgement. So in that instance it's kind of sarcastic, tongue in cheek(ish).So, I guess I should have clarified from the start. I think Mel Gibson has done great, great things for Christians worldwide with his movie. However . . . I think he did just as much harm for the same with his actions and comments which to me are inexcusable on a personal level.So again . . . christians aren't perfect . . . just forgiven.I'm not judging all christiansI just wish more vocal - and wow he sure is vocal - christians would be more christlike I actually couldn't agree with you more (as a Christian myself). Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I'm not judging all christiansI just wish more vocal - and wow he sure is vocal - christians would be more christlike so if you are not vocal you dont have to be as Christlike but are given a license to judge those 'vocal' christians when they make mistakes. Last I heard he apologized. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 so if you are not vocal you dont have to be as Christlike but are given a license to judge those 'vocal' christians when they make mistakes. Last I heard he apologized.well of course he apologized - people say what they really think when they are drunk and then when they sober up - their people tell them to apologizefoose i think we agreeI think there are a lot of wonderful religious people of all faiths but there are also a large vocal group that judges others who don't agree with them - mel is one of them and - well (i suppose i'm not proud of it) since i have a problem with their judgementality (is that a word) i'm more than a little overjoyed when they fall short of what they preach Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Mel Gibson is a jerk, a complete kneebiter. Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 well of course he apologized - people say what they really think when they are drunk and then when they sober up - their people tell them to apologizefoose i think we agreeI think there are a lot of wonderful religious people of all faiths but there are also a large vocal group that judges others who don't agree with them - mel is one of them and - well (i suppose i'm not proud of it) since i have a problem with their judgementality (is that a word) i'm more than a little overjoyed when they fall short of what they preach So this is less about your disappointment in someone not 'practicing what they preach' but more a celebration of their failure? Doesnt that seem just a little hypocritical? Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 So this is less about your disappointment in someone not 'practicing what they preach' but more a celebration of their failure? Doesnt that seem just a little hypocritical?no its more of a celebration of the revealing of their true selfhad it been a guy i respected - i'd be crushedlike this guy i dighttp://www.kevincmurphy.com/west.htmlbut then again he's not really out sending people to hell in broadstrokes Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Mel Gibson is a jerk, a complete kneebiter.1,000 Dutch points to whoever picks up on this reference.... Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 no its more of a celebration of the revealing of their true selfKey to truly understanding Christianity is understanding that it's fundamental tenet is that all men are sinners. Everyone sins. Sin is not an indicator of failure of the Christian. You're clinging to the "Church Lady" view of Christianity, which, while tragically hip, is also totally flawed. I'm sorry Mel Gibson did this. I'm also sorry that his apologies seem insincere to you. But, frankly, I have no way of judging the sincerity of his apology, other than taking it at face value. I also have no reason to believe that a sincere apology versus an insincere one has any concrete impact in our world, at this point in time. But in the eyes of God, even Mel Gibson is just another man, exactly like you and me. His sins are between him and his God. His DUI is no worse or better than yours or mine would be if the circumstances were the same, and indicates nothing of the state of religion, other than it is populated and practiced by human beings. What I'm troubled by is the outburst of anti-Semitism, which indicates deeper troubles. It was my impression that Mel Gibson had handled this part of his past, and had gotten beyond it. Character is sometimes revealed by the way we handle success, but it's more often revealed by the way we handle trouble. Mel Gibson did not handle this trouble very well. He has work to do in his heart, I think. Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Key to truly understanding Christianity is understanding that it's fundamental tenet is that all men are sinners. Everyone sins. Sin is not an indicator of failure of the Christian. You're clinging to the "Church Lady" view of Christianity, which, while tragically hip, is also totally flawed. I'm sorry Mel Gibson did this. I'm also sorry that his apologies seem insincere to you. But, frankly, I have no way of judging the sincerity of his apology, other than taking it at face value. I also have no reason to believe that a sincere apology versus an insincere one has any concrete impact in our world, at this point in time. But in the eyes of God, even Mel Gibson is just another man, exactly like you and me. His sins are between him and his God. His DUI is no worse or better than yours or mine would be if the circumstances were the same, and indicates nothing of the state of religion, other than it is populated and practiced by human beings. What I'm troubled by is the outburst of anti-Semitism, which indicates deeper troubles. It was my impression that Mel Gibson had handled this part of his past, and had gotten beyond it. Character is sometimes revealed by the way we handle success, but it's more often revealed by the way we handle trouble. Mel Gibson did not handle this trouble very well. He has work to do in his heart, I think.Well said on all points. The only thing Id have to say to OP and to everyone on this board is that this is the problem with putting people on pedestals. Everyone IS flawed and that is why God should be the standard, not man. Mel Gibson has done a lot for christians with The Passion of the Christ and it has even brought some people to God who were otherwise without Him. That is an accomplishment but nothing that should be glorified to man but to God only. Mel has proven it. Man will do great and wonderful things and then turn around and do horrible dispicable things. We all do it. we show up to church on sunday and praise God then turn around and spit in the face of that same God by taking his name in vain or any number of sins that displease him. God should always be the standard and anyone who is surprised that any man fails to represent God completely and wholly all the time is naive and ignorant. More proof of contrition on Mel's part. I cant fault a man for admitting when he is wrong and doing something about it. http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/07/....dui/index.html Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 anyone that thinks that apology is sincere is crazy - he got caught showing his true self and he's doing his best to save his image - it seems odd to me that - these people who lambast drug users and homosexuals and anyone else who live their lives the way mel and others don't want them to when they do something 100 x worse - and drunk driving is - he was driving twice the speed limit - hammered out of his mind - he might as well have been shooting a gun off into a crowdpeople are quick to say that we all sin and they should be forgiveni'm not trying to be vicious but that's the way it has always appeared to me and it drives me nuts to see iteither way i wish no harm to mel and his people - but that's clearly not what he thinks about mine when the passion came out he claimed that despite the fact that passion plays had been used in the past to amp up anti-semitism - and despite the fact that his father is a rabid anti semite - I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought him courageous to put his career on the line for that movie - but now i'm extremely sure that i know the truth Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 it seems odd to me that - these people who lambast drug users and homosexuals and anyone else who live their lives the way mel and others don't want them to when they do something 100 x worse - and drunk driving is - he was driving twice the speed limit - hammered out of his mind - he might as well have been shooting a gun off into a crowdI dont remember seeing anyone lambasting any drug users or homosexuals. Anyone who sins and is truly contrite I say forgiveness is the only way to keep from going completely insane. I mean otherwise the world would be full of people like yourself just full of pent up anger looking for someone to slip up and pounce on their ideologies. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 I dont remember seeing anyone lambasting any drug users or homosexuals. Anyone who sins and is truly contrite I say forgiveness is the only way to keep from going completely insane. I mean otherwise the world would be full of people like yourself just full of pent up anger looking for someone to slip up and pounce on their ideologies.nah not at all live however you want - just don't judge me unless i do something that can harm something elsewhich mel definitely didhe also has a history of slurs against homosexuals - whose behavior - under no scenario that i can figure out can be seen as withing a million miles of as obviously wrong as driving twice the speed limit drunk and then lurching out at the arresting police officers with anti-semitic rants and threats for doing their job Link to post Share on other sites
JadeTiger 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 nah not at all live however you want - just don't judge me unless i do something that can harm something elsewhich mel definitely didhe also has a history of slurs against homosexuals - whose behavior - under no scenario that i can figure out can be seen as withing a million miles of as obviously wrong as driving twice the speed limit drunk and then lurching out at the arresting police officers with anti-semitic rants and threats for doing their jobThats pretty subjective dont you think? I mean what hurts one person may not hurt another. Are we limiting it to physical harm? If a little girl gets hit and is killed by a drunk driver is it worse than a drunk driver hitting a beefed up man who is merely severely injured? do you see the lack of logic used in your whole judge the judgers hypocrisy? the truth is none of us is perfect and none of us has the right to judge one another. God is ultimately responsible for that. We just do our best to represent him in all we do. Even if it means we will fail in the process. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 anyone that thinks that apology is sincere is crazy - he got caught showing his true self and he's doing his best to save his image - it seems odd to me that - these people who lambast drug users and homosexuals and anyone else who live their lives the way mel and others don't want them to when they do something 100 x worse - and drunk driving is - he was driving twice the speed limit - hammered out of his mind - he might as well have been shooting a gun off into a crowdpeople are quick to say that we all sin and they should be forgiveni'm not trying to be vicious but that's the way it has always appeared to me and it drives me nuts to see iteither way i wish no harm to mel and his people - but that's clearly not what he thinks about mine when the passion came out he claimed that despite the fact that passion plays had been used in the past to amp up anti-semitism - and despite the fact that his father is a rabid anti semite - I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought him courageous to put his career on the line for that movie - but now i'm extremely sure that i know the truthAgain, Christian belief says all sin is the same ... sin is sin in the eyes of God. However, I happen to agree that what MG did is horrible. I have 4 kids and it seems like I am CONSTANTLY pulling them away from roadways where cars seem to be careening out of control and protecting them from the random carelessness of other people (although I think that the MG occurred at 3 am). However ... I am likewise of the opinion that the endless array of "personal lifestyle" choices (of which you provided a short catalog) impact us all as a society as well. Some of these behaviors shift tremendous costs to the rest of us. About the sincerity of Mel's apology; like I said earlier ... no one can know. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 Thats pretty subjective dont you think? I mean what hurts one person may not hurt another. Are we limiting it to physical harm? If a little girl gets hit and is killed by a drunk driver is it worse than a drunk driver hitting a beefed up man who is merely severely injured? do you see the lack of logic used in your whole judge the judgers hypocrisy? the truth is none of us is perfect and none of us has the right to judge one another. God is ultimately responsible for that. We just do our best to represent him in all we do. Even if it means we will fail in the process.no offense and these people may not represent you but jerry falwell, pat robertson and other vocally religious are extremely judgementaland drunk driving its just not defensible under any circumstancesmel has traditionally been very opinionated about how people should live and worship and he has proven himself not just to be flawed like we all are but a hypocritei feel that true christians should be vocal about those that are vocally judgemental yet fail to live up to anything close to a good effort at a good lifedrunk driving is very wrong whether you take out a dozen schoolkids or make it home safely - and a guy like gibson who is vocal about for instance accepting vatican 2 - started his own sect etc - slurs his so called faith with his behavior and anti-semetic views and should be held accountable for his real views and actionsthere are some things that you can apologize for - but being exposed as a viral anti-semite and blaming it on a few drinks is not at all crediblewe all know that alcohol - is a little like truth serum - it blocks the inner censor that says i shouldn't say this becuase it will make me look bad - and opens the world up to your true viewsi applaud christians who try to live good lives and try to help othersi virilently despise those who hold themselves up as superior for their faith yet call out for people to live a life they in no way live themselves Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now