$200nl Full Tilt

[Lavitz 0]

FullTiltPoker Game #819764968: Table Pavin (6 max) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:12:57 ET - 2006/07/21Seat 1: 924Tahoe ($68)Seat 2: PBB86 ($151.35)Seat 3: bambam4180 ($87.80)Seat 4: kemstyle ($250)Seat 5: cudd517 ($192.30)Seat 6: tlkn2me ($71.30)924Tahoe posts the small blind of $1PBB86 posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #6*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to cudd517 [Td Ad]bambam4180 foldskemstyle raises to $6cudd517 calls $6tlkn2me folds924Tahoe foldsPBB86 folds*** FLOP *** [2d 6d 9s]kemstyle checkscudd517 checks*** TURN *** [2d 6d 9s] [7c]kemstyle checkscudd517 bets $14kemstyle raises to $28cudd517 calls $14*** RIVER *** [2d 6d 9s 7c] [2c]kemstyle bets $20cudd517 raises to $158.30, and is all inOpponent is LAG. Stats are 60/20/3.I was initally confused by flop check as I expected continuation. However, when checked too i decided to take my free card for the nut flush draw. Turn gives me another handful of outs and he checks again. I cannot see an overpair or set checking the turn, especially on such a board (straight/flush draws) so I lead out for the pot and am min raised. I cold call. Not sure if raising here would be right or not but I figure I'd rather try to get to river cheap although I still don't buy he has a monster. River bricks and he throws out a pathetic bet. Value or bluff/weakness? I chose the later and pushed.

[hotbacon 0]

Calling is better than pushing here.The 140 more you risk on pushing doesn't fold many more hands that yhou aren't beating anyway. I would just fold as played. I may call with a strong read, but I think pushing here is completly out of the question. A 60/20/3 isn't folding 9x or better here.But bet the flop.

[Dannon 0]

This is an interesting situation. Im fine with the preflop call with A10suited. I think i would have taken a stab at the pot on the flop after he checks, around $7, but I can also see me checking, which is completely fine. After he checked on the turn you should definately take a stab. I don't think you had to bet so much. For the most part a hand that folds to a $7 bet folds to a $14 bet. After you a raised you must call with 4-1 expressed pot odds and the nut flush draw along with a gutshot (and possibly an A or 10). I definately wouldn't reraise, he says he has a hand, if he does, reraising is bad, and if he doesn't, he only has 1 card to hit a hand without giving you a flush. Finally the river brings you a blank, which is always disapointing. At this point your opponent bet only $20, giving you 9-2 pot odds. I really don't like your opponent's play, which makes it difficult to put him on a hand. I can see alot of bad players making this play with a hand like AK, but a set seems to make more sense. Say he raised with 99 and slowplayed, then decided to try to get a little extra with a small riverbet. I would fold this hand but a bluff might be posible if you really feel like he is week. The answer to what he is holding is probably in his earlier play. If you two have been playing together for a long time, maybe you've noticed a pattern in these small riverbets. My problem is the size of your bluff. There is no reason to move all your chips in. If he is truly weak, he will fold to a much smaller raise, if he has a set (which has now become a full boat), he is calling your all-in and reraising your bluff (at which point you can fold). Maybe raise it to $60. What I don't understnad is this call idea. You don't have anything... You are really almost certainly beat, even if he is bluffing (with a hand like AK).

[TRHScc814 0]

60/20 is nutso calling station not lag. Why didn't you bet the flop? Check/minraising the turn is bad.

[krup24 0]

Calling is better than pushing here.

Not a chance, call it down w/ A high, push or fold is the play.I bet this flop 95% of the time HU but against this villian I may have taken the free card as wellThe push is balsy and his river bet is very weak and I like it.

[Scott3705 0]

bet the flop and take the cheap river or bet the turn if you complete. you win more money that way.As played, I think you just pushing into the second nuts.

[NoSup4U 0]

60/20 is nutso calling station not lag. Why didn't you bet the flop? Check/minraising the turn is bad.

That was villian, not heroI haven't played online in so long...60/20/3...is the 20 post flop aggression factor? If his is that high, and he ISNT betting, that scares the hell out of me. I take any free cards I'm given probably.Mark

[screech 0]

I reraise preflop.As is, I bet the flop and am willing to push if he reraises. If I check, I check behind the turn too. I dont reraise the river either. Villian is the type that would push with your hand, so he will probably get suspicouis and look you up with anything that beats you.

[Lavitz 0]

Calling is better than pushing here.The 140 more you risk on pushing doesn't fold many more hands that yhou aren't beating anyway. I would just fold as played. I may call with a strong read, but I think pushing here is completly out of the question. A 60/20/3 isn't folding 9x or better here.But bet the flop.

1.) Im getting AK-AJ to fold which have me beat. If he raised connectors and caught part I cant see them calling that as well (56,67,78,89) as the river counterfeited any lower two pair and if he had OESD it didn't come through and what he caught isnt enough to call that. I surely cant see him calling TP 8 kicker to an all in if he had 89.2.) 20% PFR isnt that out of hand and he did raise p-flop. That basically means he raises typical raising hands and maybe a little more (maybe suited connectors, weaker aces) Other then A9 or 99, none hit and why on earth would you check A9 on that flop, WHY check the turn, even with 99? Makes no sense. Maybe checking flop but checking turn on such a board with a monster is absurd. 60/20/3 would be more prone to fold this then a 25/25/1. Do you know why? The LAG is agressive and is more likely to bet with nothing or a weak hand. This doesnt mean he will CALL with pathetic hands.

60/20 is nutso calling station not lag. Why didn't you bet the flop? Check/minraising the turn is bad.

I didnt checkraise and I also stated that obviously a continuation bet is the standard here so when he checked I decided to take a free card to the nuts.

I reraise preflop.As is, I bet the flop and am willing to push if he reraises. If I check, I check behind the turn too. I dont reraise the river either. Villian is the type that would push with your hand, so he will probably get suspicouis and look you up with anything that beats you.

Reraise p-flop? His 20%PFR isnt that out of line and how much would you raise too? 18? I'm not a maniac and I don't like reraising with much less then AK or a PP. Occasionally suited conenctors but his looseness p-flop in calling already tells me I will get called and then go to the flop feeling unsafe catching anything less then two pair.I would have probably reraised him if he bet but his check seemed sketchy so I decided to take a free card. Pushing over a reraise if I bet on this flop seems -EV. He will almost always have me killed and probably down to my flush draw. Not a big fan of pushing over obvious strength with a flush draw.Not sure why were checking turn when we just picked up some more outs and he seems totally uninterested in pot with the check. I can understand not reraising river but I don't see many opponents calling pushes with less then TP at tables and why would he play 9 so passively? I've shown some strength in the hand so I don't suspect he's going to wake up with a killer read and make an amazing call with AK high.

[screech 0]

lavitz,I do a lot of reraising pf, especially out of position. Usually I end up taking it down pf, and if not, on the flop with a 2/3 to pot sized bet. And while 20%pfr isn't that out of line, he is raising wiht a lot of hands you have badly beat from 2 off the button. Not to mention that some of the hands that beat you are giving up pf or on the flop anyway. Also, reraising frequently pf with hands like this kinda bolsters your image and makes it easier for to get paid off with a strong pf hands like AA. Anyway, I would generally raise to around 3x his intial raise.I agree that his check seems sketchy. It probably means a set or nothing. Given that, you are probably better off just calling a raise instead of pushing (I just learned something:)). But I think a flop bet takes this down often enough to risk the raise. If you had AKs, a check would be much more appealing.As an aside, if he bet, I think you have to push. When he checks, his range is usually sets or overs. If he bet, his range would pretty much be whatever he had pf, and you could push the flop because your overs are much more likely to be clean, so you probalby have a pot equity edge (plus teh fold eqity edge).As for the turn, my earlier post was dumb. His most likely hand is overcards that have more sd value than your hand, so the bet is good. I also missed the extra outs you picked up, but I think calling is superior to raising becauae his range leans so much towards set type hands. Good hand.

[mkeller3086 0]

lavitz,I do a lot of reraising pf, especially out of position. Usually I end up taking it down pf, and if not, on the flop with a 2/3 to pot sized bet.

screech,could you give some examples of this? are you reraising from just the blinds or are you limp reraising? what types of hands are you doing this with?

[Lavitz 0]

screech,could you give some examples of this? are you reraising from just the blinds or are you limp reraising? what types of hands are you doing this with?

I'm assuming not limp raising rather raising or reraising if it is raised before him. I'm also gonna guess since he suggested doing it with A10s then almost any raising hands will do. It works most of the time and is very effective against weak/passive players but against aggros you're gonna run into resistance and find yourself in trouble when you miss the flop. You'll also run into your share of AA's/KK's who will be pushing back.

[mkeller3086 0]

I'm assuming not limp raising rather raising or reraising if it is raised before him. I'm also gonna guess since he suggested doing it with A10s then almost any raising hands will do. It works most of the time and is very effective against weak/passive players but against aggros you're gonna run into resistance and find yourself in trouble when you miss the flop. You'll also run into your share of AA's/KK's who will be pushing back.

well the reason i ask about limp reraising and raising from the blinds is that he mentions reraising a lot preflop, especially out of position. if i am thinking correctly these are the only chances to reraise out of position.......unless he means raising, getting reraised then raising back.

[Lavitz 0]

well the reason i ask about limp reraising and raising from the blinds is that he mentions reraising a lot preflop, especially out of position. if i am thinking correctly these are the only chances to reraise out of position.......unless he means raising, getting reraised then raising back.

Think hes refering to out of blinds as it would be suicide to consistently further reraise a person's reraise with a common raising hand. Average guy is only reraising 1010-AA and AK pre-flop.

[Scott3705 0]

Think hes refering to out of blinds as it would be suicide to consistently further reraise a person's reraise with a common raising hand. Average guy is only reraising 1010-AA and AK pre-flop.

I dont' think that's true at all at 6-max. I think the range is much larger

[Lavitz 0]

I dont' think that's true at all at 6-max. I think the range is much larger

I said average guy and I dont think the average player reraises with a huge range or else it would be much too easy for rocks to play patient and dominate the tables with pre-flop selection alone. There's usually not a lot of reraising going on and when I am reraised and push with AA or KK I am called about half the time, and am up against another solid hand. Maybe it's the supposed tighter nature of Full Tilt. When someone raises there is probably a reraise less then 15% of the time and usually its either an aggro player or an average tight player with a premium hand.

[spikymarv99 0]

FullTiltPoker Game #819764968: Table Pavin (6 max) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:12:57 ET - 2006/07/21Seat 1: 924Tahoe ($68)Seat 2: PBB86 ($151.35)Seat 3: bambam4180 ($87.80)Seat 4: kemstyle ($250)Seat 5: cudd517 ($192.30)Seat 6: tlkn2me ($71.30)924Tahoe posts the small blind of $1PBB86 posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #6*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to cudd517 [Td Ad]bambam4180 foldskemstyle raises to $6cudd517 calls $6tlkn2me folds924Tahoe foldsPBB86 folds*** FLOP *** [2d 6d 9s]kemstyle checkscudd517 checks*** TURN *** [2d 6d 9s] [7c]kemstyle checkscudd517 bets $14kemstyle raises to $28cudd517 calls $14*** RIVER *** [2d 6d 9s 7c] [2c]kemstyle bets $20cudd517 raises to $158.30, and is all inOpponent is LAG. Stats are 60/20/3.I was initally confused by flop check as I expected continuation. However, when checked too i decided to take my free card for the nut flush draw. Turn gives me another handful of outs and he checks again. I cannot see an overpair or set checking the turn, especially on such a board (straight/flush draws) so I lead out for the pot and am min raised. I cold call. Not sure if raising here would be right or not but I figure I'd rather try to get to river cheap although I still don't buy he has a monster. River bricks and he throws out a pathetic bet. Value or bluff/weakness? I chose the later and pushed.

Your push on the river looks exactly like what it is.... as played I would fold this river. I would have pushed the turn. You have good equity vs. his range and it certainly looks like a slowplayed monster. Even if he calls with a badly played monster, you have 12 outs when he holds a set.

[Scott3705 0]

I said average guy and I dont think the average player reraises with a huge range or else it would be much too easy for rocks to play patient and dominate the tables with pre-flop selection alone. There's usually not a lot of reraising going on and when I am reraised and push with AA or KK I am called about half the time, and am up against another solid hand. Maybe it's the supposed tighter nature of Full Tilt. When someone raises there is probably a reraise less then 15% of the time and usually its either an aggro player or an average tight player with a premium hand.

I realize you said average guy and I think that your range is simply too small for the average guy.

[Lavitz 0]

Your push on the river looks exactly like what it is.... as played I would fold this river. I would have pushed the turn. You have good equity vs. his range and it certainly looks like a slowplayed monster. Even if he calls with a badly played monster, you have 12 outs when he holds a set.

Ehh? I would have played a straight or set turned boat almost identical. Actually I wouldn't have played the set like that, slowplaying on that flop, but the majority of LAGs, like this one ,could have so he would be able to identify with me checking the set, betting it on the turn, further slowplaying it by coldcalling a reraise and then pushing after the boat hits on the river. Most players like I'm up against a LAG who sees WAY to many flops. Therefore, he probably isn't the best reader/player. His river bet seems like a bluff or weak semi bluff. If he comes out swinging on turn I dont make this move but how can he check the turn also with a set? I don't think he would.I dont agree it looks like monster rather a resteal on me when I bet and his river bet is basically saying "Oh **** he actually called my reraise, maybe he has a hand" and is just a continuation resteal for an opponent who isnt brave enough to pot it because he is afraid. Also, if you suspect it "certainly" looks like a steal, why push instead of taking a cheap card in hopes he probably wont be able to let his monster go if we hit?