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So in the last 24 hours I'm down 50 BB. That's my largest downswing in awhile and it has sort of unnerved me. I'm playing well within my BR so I'm not worried about going broke really... that said, it is bothersome.I think I may be losing some bets by not slowing down quick enough and giving my opponents credit... Any thoughts on the following hand? I've been at the table for about 45 minutes. It is pretty tight, aggressive table. Texas Hold'em $0.50-$1 (Real Money), I'm in MP with K :club: K :DPRE-FLOP1 fold, EP2 calls $0.50, 2 folds, HERO bets $1, 1 cold call, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50, EP2 calls $0.50.FLOP [board cards 5 :heart: ,Q :diamond: ,3 :diamond: ]2 checks, HERO bets $0.50, 3 calls $0.50.TURN [2 :heart: ]2 checks, HERO bets $1, 2 call, EP2 raises, HERO 3-bets, 2 folds, EP2 caps, HERO?The pot is at about 14BB right now. Can I get away from this now? If I call, how do I play the river unimproved?Thanks all.

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We are probably beaten there.He probably has A4 and we are drawing dead.Maybe he can be slowplaying his flopped set too.Either way we are pretty doomed.I don't think he is capping with two pairs there.What can he have Q2?I don't think he is capping the turn with flush draw either.But can i fold it there?I dunno.But i am pretty sure i should :club:

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It might not have been right for me to 3-bet that turn. I was trying to protect my hand from the two people behind me... Is there an argument for just calling the raise?I worry that I'm playing to passive if I just call that raise...

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I was trying to protect my hand from the two people behind me...
I think the your raise is okay. You don't want to call and let the 2 chasers play. Now that it is HU, I would c/c river.If the pot is 14BB, you need to be right less than 10 percent to justify c/c the river.What would EP2 be playing? Do you think he would limp in from EP with A4, or Qx? Maybe he limped with 55, or 33?
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It might not have been right for me to 3-bet that turn. I was trying to protect my hand from the two people behind me... Is there an argument for just calling the raise?I worry that I'm playing to passive if I just call that raise...
I know the feeling mate.I feel guilty when i check or call too :club: I am not sure about 3-betting the turn tho.Are we ahead there?I don't think so.Are we in a good draw?Nope.Then why are we raising?Some read on EP2 can help tho.Does he play a lot of hands preflop or overplay his top pair?
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turn 3 bet was fabulous.his c/r shows a TON of strength.You are almost always beat after the capThere are 15BB's in pot and you need to call the cap and river.So you are getting 8:1 effectively.Add a small chance he has hand like QhJh, a chance you hit a K, and sanity, and I think you can call down.It's either Call turn and riveror Fold to the turn cap. (better EV, I'd say, w/o read that he's tricky, over aggressive... for example AQ might do this, but AQ raises preflop)I can't fault either..because I know the correct play against a stright forward low limit TAG..and then I know the paly I make :club: because I like to see showdowns.He has 55.

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From the time I had been there EP2 was pretty solid. He played quality hands... I couldn't put him on A4 even cause he was in early position... although if it was suited he might play it. At best I thought I was up against KQ or QJ because I thought he would play those but not raise with them Preflop. At worst, I thought I was up against a set.I think my problem was that I got concerned with chasing the other two players out instead of focusing on the strength represented by EP2's raise. I should have maybe focused on just showing down as cheaply as possible at that point.Tough hand and I think I definately have been losing some money on hands like this. This is helpful though.

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Sure. I knew I was behind at that point, but was I behind enough to throw away my Top pair hand getting 14-1??That's tough to say. Even if he bets out on the River and I call, he only has to have KQ or something one out 8 times or so for me to be profitable. I think that is realistic.Especially assuming that if I fold and he flips over QJ I go... :club:

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If we are 3-betting the turn i think we should definetly fold to cap.If we are raising to get information,we got it by the cap.
we're raisng to charge the other two (if flush draw or other draws that can call correctly) and protect our hand against gut shots and other draws that would call incorectly... also, secondarily, we may feel a decent chance to be ahead of c/r'er, who could be semi-bluffing, and that's where the info comes in.imo..this is a crucial situation that happens: Big mulitway pots, wher you are probably behind..do you 3-bet? THen fold when you've built this big pot.I"ve called in reinforcements, hopefully he'll opine..and disagree with me!
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we're raisng to charge the other two (if flush draw or other draws that can call correctly) and protect our hand against gut shots and other draws that would call incorectly... also, secondarily, we may feel a decent chance to be ahead of c/r'er, who could be semi-bluffing, and that's where the info comes in.imo..this is a crucial situation that happens: Big mulitway pots, wher you are probably behind..do you 3-bet? THen fold when you've built this big pot.I"ve called in reinforcements, hopefully he'll opine..and disagree with me!
OK but if he is a solid player two pairs is out of question.So we are against either a set or straight.We are drawing dead against straight and have only 2 outs against a set.I just can't understand why we are 3-betting if we are most probably behind.What good is charging draws when we are behind?I am not argueing just trying to learn.
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we're raisng to charge the other two (if flush draw or other draws that can call correctly) and protect our hand against gut shots and other draws that would call incorectly... also, secondarily, we may feel a decent chance to be ahead of c/r'er, who could be semi-bluffing, and that's where the info comes in.imo..this is a crucial situation that happens: Big mulitway pots, wher you are probably behind..do you 3-bet? THen fold when you've built this big pot.I"ve called in reinforcements, hopefully he'll opine..and disagree with me!
Yeah, I agree with you. We could easily be ahead here, and if we're not, we could have a bunch of outs. In such a big pot, it is worth the extra bet to get the toher 2 to fold.Turn is an easy call once it's capped. Fold any non-board pairing/non king river, and call everything else.
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Yeah, I agree with you. We could easily be ahead here, and if we're not, we could have a bunch of outs. In such a big pot, it is worth the extra bet to get the toher 2 to fold.Turn is an easy call once it's capped. Fold any non-board pairing/non king river, and call everything else.
Screech: the assumption is that this player is tight. Why are we calling the turn cap and folding the river? We are almost never against two pair. QHJh maybe.. so call down or fold to cap, right?My brain folds turn if my read is good.Otherwise I go with heart and call down.
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Yeah, I agree with you. We could easily be ahead here, and if we're not, we could have a bunch of outs. In such a big pot, it is worth the extra bet to get the toher 2 to fold.Turn is an easy call once it's capped. Fold any non-board pairing/non king river, and call everything else.
I didn't get it.If we can easily be ahead on turn why are we folding river UI?I think two pairs is very unlikely so we are beating any Qx.And we are losing to any set or straight.
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Ugh. I don't know what to think here?I really need a read here to 3-bet the turn with just one pair. If he's someone who will "slowplay" top pair until the turn, then ok, we can 3-bet, but if he's only raising a made hand here, ie two pair or better, then I hate the 3-bet.Actuary, I know you are saying we have to charge flush draws, but what about the fact that we are charging ourself unnecessarily drawing to 0-5 outs.I don't know. I just read what screech said. Clearly charging the other two hands is important, and since this is such a huge pot, I can't imagine the 3-bet being that big of a mistake, if it is. HU, are you 3-betting this, or just calling and calling the river UI?The problem with this is when he caps it on the turn, I think we are clearly behind and probably don't have many outs, and even when we do have outs, ie to 2 pair, they are very hidden, and we won't be able to get more than 1 bet on the river. Furthermore, what if we hit a K, do we raise the river? What if he has A4? Then we are putting more money in drawing dead. I really need a read on this player.I understand the idea of raising in a large pot, but I really dislike this raise.Ugh, I'm undecided too, it just seems that we are way behind too often to me.I know I'm probably wrong as Actuary and screech have opined against me, but hopefully one of them can tell me why I'm wrong.- ZachEDIT - I'd also like to add that we are NEVER folding a better hand that ours.

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so, Zach, are you saving the extra bets and going to SD ?Are you folding UI?Are you calling if a :club: falls and two left to act ?This goes against my usualy see a SD and it's predicated on a read of Villain, hence TWO Pair is very unlikely.Set or A4s, or QhJh..imo. make up biggest rangeAlthough, tha'ts counter intuitive as 55 and A4s if tight, fold preflop a lot.. but 55 most likely imo

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so, Zach, are you saving the extra bets and going to SD ?Are you folding UI?Are you calling if a :club: falls and two left to act ?This goes against my usualy see a SD and it's predicated on a read of Villain, hence TWO Pair is very unlikely.Set or A4s, or QhJh..imo. make up biggest rangeAlthough, tha'ts counter intuitive as 55 and A4s if tight, fold preflop a lot.. but 55 most likely imo
Ugh.. I had a whole EV calculation here, but I have no idea whether I was even close, so I'm not posting it...I agree 2 pair is unlikely, although there were still no stats or read given on this particular player.Also, does this player raise AQ, KQ preflop? Some players don't even raise QQ preflop...Is he loose enough to open limp A4s and 22, 33, 55? Is he loose enough to peel the flop with 22?Will he semi-bluff the turn with QJh?Will he wait for the turn to raise AQ? Certainly not if he hasn't raised it pf, right?Will he wait for the turn to raise his set?I need all of these questions answered.- Zach
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