Recent Circuit Show With Boyd

[LewFather 0]

People have different styles, My question is if its the very first hand how the fuck do you know he has QJ? Lets just say for whatever reason we do happen to know this, I'm probably still not calling. If you are Farha you would.

[crimethink_ 0]

Stopped reading this thread after 5 pages, but thought I'd throw my 2 cents in...I'd fold the AK, not because of pot-odds, or the fact that its the first hand in a week-long tournament; but because I wouldn't want to be the donk on TV that busts in the first hand without having AA. There's a tough one to live down.

Would you want to be the donk who folded AK when the other guy showed his QJ?

[Loismustdie 0]

No, you are missing the point of the Matros article.Loismustdie - you have said that if the guy pushes and shows AK you would call with QQ but not 55. Why? What is the

[SavageHenry 0]

in a tourney with 1500 chips id call. in a tourney with more than that id go into the tank and probably end up foldingDidnt DN bring this same point up awhile back arguing that no one can routinely pass up a 20 percent edge in the long run and be a winning player or something to that effect.

[navybuttons 15]

this is something that i believe in that other people on this forum may not:it is sometimes correct to make knowingly -ev decisions (short term) because in the long run the decision +ev.there are situations where you want a guy to believe that you will not play back at him unless you really have a hand (to set this up you may need to fold when you have the best of it). there are times when you push all in with a marginal hand and want to get called even as a 60:40 dog because of what doubling up means to your chipstack. (or what knocking out a shortstack does to your equity)there are times when you know he is going to call your bluff (but you do it anyway) because you are setting him up to make a huge hand against him later.my guess is that many of you (like matt matros) have trouble understanding these plays because you let the math get in the way. (what has matt matros ever really done besinds 1 wpt final table?) [i hold your thoughts in the same regard as his.]folding as a 3:2 favorite on the first hand is a -ev play. however the in the long run the decision to fold there is +ev.do this in a cash game and you are in idiot, do it in a tournament and sleep well at night.

[bascomeb 0]

this is something that i believe in that other people on this forum may not:it is sometimes correct to make knowingly -ev decisions (short term) because in the long run the decision +ev.there are situations where you want a guy to believe that you will not play back at him unless you really have a hand (to set this up you may need to fold when you have the best of it). there are times when you push all in with a marginal hand and want to get called even as a 60:40 dog because of what doubling up means to your chipstack. (or what knocking out a shortstack does to your equity)there are times when you know he is going to call your bluff (but you do it anyway) because you are setting him up to make a huge hand against him later.my guess is that many of you (like matt matros) have trouble understanding these plays because you let the math get in the way. (what has matt matros ever really done besinds 1 wpt final table?) [i hold your thoughts in the same regard as his.]folding as a 3:2 favorite on the first hand is a -ev play. however the in the long run the decision to fold there is +ev.do this in a cash game and you are in idiot, do it in a tournament and sleep well at night.

my guess is you have trouble realizing that Negreanu would say call everytime.Im not sure but I think hes made a couple final tables...Just because Matros doesn't play every god damn event like Gavin Smith (which by the way he gets backed, a.k.a not that good) doesn't mean he is wrong.

[crimethink_ 0]

it is sometimes correct to make knowingly -ev decisions (short term) because in the long run the decision +ev.

Yes.

there are situations where you want a guy to believe that you will not play back at him unless you really have a hand (to set this up you may need to fold when you have the best of it).

And then that guy will proceed to push you out of every pot you're in against him, unless you're lucky enough to catch a hand. Why in the hell would you want your opponents to try to run over you? You want them to play passively, not aggressively. Not only is making this call +$EV, it will encourage your opponents not to play so aggressively against you as a bonus.

my guess is that many of you (like matt matros) have trouble understanding these plays because you let the math get in the way. (what has matt matros ever really done besinds 1 wpt final table?) [i hold your thoughts in the same regard as his.]

Okay, at this point, I think we've established that Matt Matros, Daniel Negreanu, Erick Lindgren, Paul Phillips, and Greg Raymer will all take any edge they can find. And I hear they're pretty good poker players.

[irishguy 14]

my guess is you have trouble realizing that Negreanu would say call everytime.Im not sure but I think hes made a couple final tables...Just because Matros doesn't play every god damn event like Gavin Smith (which by the way he gets backed, a.k.a not that good) doesn't mean he is wrong.

I get that you would make this call and understand why...but didn't you also say you likely wouldn't call with 55 if sb showed QJ, why is that? And stating that Gavin Smith is not that good because he gets backed is ridiculous. Look at his record over the past five years. Hell TJ has been backed for thrity and its tough to argue whether he's good or not.

[nasnorab 0]

i know im late on this one...but forrealdd...youre really digging yourself a hole here with nothing to lean on...im not even sure you understand that this is a hypothetical situation where you KNOW your opponents cards are QJ...obviously this rarely if ever happens...but if youre folding AK when your opponent moves in with QJ and youre last to act on the first hand of a tourney...this is a monumental error...you may not like to committ all your chips preflop...but truthfully this is just a matter of your ego telling you youll get your chips in at some later point with a bigger edge...as the op pointed out there are about a brazilian things wrong with this reasoning...no one is saying you dont cash...and no one is saying youre not good...but if youre routinely passing up 2-1 edges cause you "dont want to committ your chips preflop" thats a HUGE leak in your game...anyone who folds here is wrong...theres no player so good he can give up 2-1 edges...

[profxavier9 0]

easy foldedit- in a deep stack tourny. shortter stack i call everytime

[No_Neck 0]

easy foldedit- in a deep stack tourny. shortter stack i call everytime

good answer

[crimethink_ 0]

good answer

You forgot the sw

[drewm 0]

If anyone listened to the whole radio segment the BB actually had AA. They then asked ten pros what they would do with AK. I believe most pros would be confident enough to fold here knowing that they could grind away at the donkey field and get a chip lead without risking their tournament life on one hand. I agree with this thinking. AK yes is poiwerful but it's still a drawing hand

[bascomeb 0]

If anyone listened to the whole radio segment the BB actually had AA. They then asked ten pros what they would do with AK. I believe most pros would be confident enough to fold here knowing that they could grind away at the donkey field and get a chip lead without risking their tournament life on one hand. I agree with this thinking. AK yes is poiwerful but it's still a drawing hand

If u actually listened to the radio segment Dutch said AK. nice try tho

[Pupsta 0]

If anyone listened to the whole radio segment the BB actually had AA. They then asked ten pros what they would do with AK. I believe most pros would be confident enough to fold here knowing that they could grind away at the donkey field and get a chip lead without risking their tournament life on one hand. I agree with this thinking. AK yes is poiwerful but it's still a drawing hand

i have to say that this is the most annoying poker cliche there is. i'd rather the douchebag with sunglasses a hat and ipod at 2/4 limit in downtown vegas scream SHIP IT PASS THE SUGAH every time he steals blinds preflop than ever hear this again.an OESD is a drawing hand. a flush draw is a drawing hand. a hand that can go allin preflop, not improve, and still win, is *not* a drawing hand. DUCY?

[zimmer4141 0]

This thread might go in the annals of FCP history as one of the dumbest threads ever. Not so much for what was argued, but how it was argued. We had 1 page of an argument, then 5 more of people repeating the original argument thinking they were adding something new. Congratulations. Sadly, this was a couple of relative vets in this argument rather than a couple of newbies like I would expect.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Loismustdie is the new jfarrell.

[Dizzyg8r 0]

Easy fold for me on the 1st hand of a ds tourney. Later stages of a tourney, it becomes an easy call for me. Didn't TJ Cloutier once say the only acceptable hand to go broke on preflop early in a big tourney is AA? Cash game, it's an easy call, tournament easy fold. More to poker than just math.http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/15462http://www.bluffmagazine.com/magazine/2005_11_96.asp

[bascomeb 0]

This thread might go in the annals of FCP history as one of the dumbest threads ever. Not so much for what was argued, but how it was argued. We had 1 page of an argument, then 5 more of people repeating the original argument thinking they were adding something new. Congratulations. Sadly, this was a couple of relative vets in this argument rather than a couple of newbies like I would expect.

at this point i would prefer this thread die rather then hear about how everyone is so good to lay down a 60/40 spot

[BeaverStyle 1]

AK getting owned by QJ.

[crimethink_ 0]

at this point i would prefer this thread die rather then hear about how everyone is so good to lay down a 60/40 spot and how there's more to poker than just math.

[sdnuol 0]

AK getting owned by QJ.

i laugh everytime i see that.

[drewm 0]

OK bascomeb listen to the radio show again.....1st scenario was AA and still most pros will fold 1st hand WSOP. And yes AK strong hand but still.............an underdog to any pair

[sdnuol 0]

OK bascomeb listen to the radio show again.....1st scenario was AA and still most pros will fold 1st hand WSOP.

i guarentee when it comes down to it no one will be folding aces on any hand. its -ev to fold it then but +ev in the long run......so what. its the best starting hand and no one is good enough to fold them.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

This thread might go in the annals of FCP history as one of the dumbest threads ever. Not so much for what was argued, but how it was argued.

Quoted For TruthI truly feel slightly dumber, or at least feel bad for humanity if this is illustrative of it's ability to reason (there are a few exceptions and you know who you are).