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I think this needs to be a 2 hour TV final table, like the TOC.
I would say it needs to be like a 4 hour TV final table, but I hate ESPN's poker coverage. I can't stand Norman Chad and Lon McEachern.
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Its been said already by several of the pros that the final table being NLHE wasn't even an ESPN/WSOP idea. Almost all the pros were in favor of it. It wasn't forced down their throat and ESPN/WSOP wasn't even the first to suggest it. As for my own personal feelings, I hardly ever get to see some of the other games played by pros so I'd LOVE to see them stick to the H.O.R.S.E. format at the final table. But that's just me. Apparently, the pros wanted it the way that it is and they're the ones putting up the dough, so I guess that's their right. You can't blame WSOP/ESPN for the format. Keep in mind that paying $2,000 a person juice, they could have had any format they wanted and the tournament would have gone on. It may not have gotten on TV if ESPN deemed it un-interesting to the average viewer, but the pros set this tournament up to be played the way that they wanted. This is not "a bastardization of poker" going on here.
Thanks, good info. Apparently my assumption was wrong. After reading the rest of the posts and realizing that this will actually add another game into the mix, I'm not as against it as I was at first.I really just wish we could see the pros playing something other than nlhe.....that's what it boils down to.
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Why wouldn't the final table be all NL?
Because this is damn HORSE tourney, not NLHE? Because NLHE isn't even part of the HORSE rotation? Because many people seem to be on record saying that switching is NLHE for the final table is retarded?ESPN has been great for the growth of poker, obviously, but this is just stupid beyond belief. Are they seriously suggesting the poker-loving public wouldn't get completely juiced to watch the HORSE mixed games format on TV? It would be incredibly interesting and, in my opinion, would help people see that poker is so, so much more than just hold 'em. The schedule for the WSOP this year is just terribly disappointing for all real poker players. I mean, one Stud 8OB event?One last note -- I think it is incredible that both Brunson and Cloutier are at this final table. They played 19 hours (19 hours!) to get down to nine and both of these guys are still in there at their age. What a tribute to these guys and to the old road gamblers in general. Incredible.
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Well, that's not too surprising seeing as almost only name-pros entered the tournament.I'm rooting for Antonius, he only needs 6 or so double ups to get an average chip-stack. ;)Or of course, as someone mentioned in the other thread: Ivey vs. Brunson headsup!Whoever wins that one is deserving of it though.Agreed. Also: everyone who entered the tournament knew, the final table would be NLHE, and obviously noone had a problem with that.
Why would you want to see a Euro-Zoolander guy win what is possibly considered the most complete player bracelet??? I respect his game, but I I'd rather see Chip, Doyle, Ivey win it - since they truly are the cream of the crop...
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Because this is damn HORSE tourney, not NLHE? Because NLHE isn't even part of the HORSE rotation? Because many people seem to be on record saying that switching is NLHE for the final table is retarded?ESPN has been great for the growth of poker, obviously, but this is just stupid beyond belief. Are they seriously suggesting the poker-loving public wouldn't get completely juiced to watch the HORSE mixed games format on TV? It would be incredibly interesting and, in my opinion, would help people see that poker is so, so much more than just hold 'em. The schedule for the WSOP this year is just terribly disappointing for all real poker players. I mean, one Stud 8OB event?One last note -- I think it is incredible that both Brunson and Cloutier are at this final table. They played 19 hours (19 hours!) to get down to nine and both of these guys are still in there at their age. What a tribute to these guys and to the old road gamblers in general. Incredible.
I agree with this too!!!It's official, I'm changing back to my original stance......THIS IS THE BASTARDIZATION OF POKER!!
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Why would you want to see a Euro-Zoolander guy win what is possibly considered the most complete player bracelet??? I respect his game, but I I'd rather see Chip, Doyle, Ivey win it - since they truly are the cream of the crop...
Well I'm European (though definately non-Zoolander) myself, so I see nothing wrong in rooting for the last non-american standing. Also, his chances are minimal, and I always like the underdog. :club: Anyone who wins this tournament, deserves to.
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I would say it needs to be like a 4 hour TV final table, but I hate ESPN's poker coverage. I can't stand Norman Chad and Lon McEachern.
Preceeded by about 8 hours of the first two days. Hell this would be a final table that I'd pay to watch live. This one should be on PPV - or since I'm on the East Coast - DVD.
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Why wouldn't the final table be all NL?NL is by far the most skillful game, when blinds are reasonable. The mixed game format and 50k buy in was good for sifting out all the crappy Kanters of the poker world, but the final table should be as Doyle calls it, "The Cadillac of Poker". (of course Cadillacs aren't even the Caddilacs of cars anymore, but it was relevant in '78). This is the true championship of poker, not the Main Event Donkfest.
QFTAMEN!!
Because this is damn HORSE tourney, not NLHE? Because NLHE isn't even part of the HORSE rotation? Because many people seem to be on record saying that switching is NLHE for the final table is retarded?
No Sh*t tis not part of the rotation, thats why it should be the FT!! How can a NL game be part of a limit mix? You are confused, thinking that this was done for TV purposes. While, coincidentally, it is great for ESPN, the players WANT this. What do you thihnk? They all hate NLHE? Its a true mix game now. You have to prove yourself at EVERY game to win this bracelet. Ahh why bother. If it was a HORSE FT people would be saying that its NOT a true test without a NL game.... :club:
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If the final table was HORSE as well, I think Chip Reese would take it down, but as is I'm gonna have to go with Ivey. His no limit game's sharper, and at his age, he'll be better equipped to handle the schedule than someone like Brunson.
I love Ivey and his 30 and 40 hour sessions are damn near legendary and, at the very least, well known but I would be very hesitant to underestimate Doyle Brunson. Yes his age is a factor but he was turning in 40 hr sessions when Ivey's parents were just a gleam in their daddy's eye!! The man has incredible endurance for a man his age and more experience than the rest of the final table put together (or close anyway) I hope it comes down to those two because it could be an epic match. May the best man win!
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Greatest final table ever - uh, other than Jim Betchel. It's a real disappointment that we'll never get to see who would have actually won the HORSE event, since it's switching to NL Holdem. Chip Reese showed pretty clearly why he's regarded as the best overall player in the world, and he would have had the opportunity to decisively prove it if they stuck with the mixed game/limit format (which is what the pros play at the highest stakes reguarly).Obviously shows that the old guys were more well rounded poker players - amazing to see Reese, Brunson, Tomko and Cloutier all still there and thriving. Ivey more than living up to his rep. Even the guys who made the last 2 tables and the money - Greenstein, Gavin Smith, Robert Williamson. Even guys who just missed the money, like Cunningham, Forest, SeidelThe wheat was really separate from the chaff in this one -- it'll be really hard not to regard this as the true championship of poker from now on, when more than half the final table of the ME last year was comprised of lucky donkey retards.

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I'm really loving this.
GODDAMMIT!
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To top everything off, there is the prop bet rumor. If it is true that 5-6 of the Big Game players have a 1 million dollar prop bet bracelet race, then this HORSE event is even more important. This is going to be awesome

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Why wouldn't the final table be all NL?NL is by far the most skillful game, when blinds are reasonable. The mixed game format and 50k buy in was good for sifting out all the crappy Kanters of the poker world, but the final table should be as Doyle calls it, "The Cadillac of Poker". (of course Cadillacs aren't even the Caddilacs of cars anymore, but it was relevant in '78). This is the true championship of poker, not the Main Event Donkfest.
If NL hold'em is the most skillful game, why isn't IT used to weed out the lesser players? Maybe because it's NOT the most skillful game? Maybe?I'd have to say stud/8 requires the most skill. It requires far greater card reading ability than hold'em and you can't turn it into a preflop all-in fest.I think changing games at the end of a tournament is garbage. It's a HORSE tournament, it should stay that way until the end.
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One last note -- I think it is incredible that both Brunson and Cloutier are at this final table. They played 19 hours (19 hours!) to get down to nine and both of these guys are still in there at their age. What a tribute to these guys and to the old road gamblers in general. Incredible.
Agreed, I think it's amazing that Doyle was able to play for so long and make it to the final table at his age. I almost want him to win just for that, but I'm still rootin for Ivey. As long as Chip, Doyle, TJ, or Phil wins it though I'll be happy.
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Greatest final table ever - uh, other than Jim Betchel. It's a real disappointment that we'll never get to see who would have actually won the HORSE event, since it's switching to NL Holdem. Chip Reese showed pretty clearly why he's regarded as the best overall player in the world, and he would have had the opportunity to decisively prove it if they stuck with the mixed game/limit format (which is what the pros play at the highest stakes reguarly).Obviously shows that the old guys were more well rounded poker players - amazing to see Reese, Brunson, Tomko and Cloutier all still there and thriving. Ivey more than living up to his rep. Even the guys who made the last 2 tables and the money - Greenstein, Gavin Smith, Robert Williamson. Even guys who just missed the money, like Cunningham, Forest, SeidelThe wheat was really separate from the chaff in this one -- it'll be really hard not to regard this as the true championship of poker from now on, when more than half the final table of the ME last year was comprised of lucky donkey retards.
You do know that Jim Bechtel won the ME before right? I think it was 1993 if I remember correctly.
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I think that the fact that these guys made it through to the FT nullifies the fact that NL Holdem may not be the most skillful game there is. These guys are clearly some of the best players in the world and they made it through what i would consider the most difficult type of poker there is. The fact that they made it to the FT proves enough as is... if they want to play NL Holdem for the final table, im completely for it. Wouldn't you rather see this event televised on espn rather than never being televised and having the greatest tournament/FT ever just go to waste. I truly believe that the people at espn would realize that the average viewer would change the channel after about 5 seconds when they did not recognize the community cards being delt. People may say taht it would be entertaining to someone that is not a poker enthusiast, but im almost sure that they would jsut find themselves confused. I am happy that they're doing NL Hold'em because hey... i want to see the greatest final table ever!

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