KONGOS 0 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 So I'm playing a friendly home game .10/.20 PLO, but as always the stacks get huge after multiple re-buys. In addition to just wanting to post this hand, I'd like some analysis of everyone's play. It's 5 handed and UTG raises to $.50 - the whole table calls...I'm in the small blind with Kc7c2s4d - I know a terrible hand but for $.40 and $30+ in front of me I'm not folding. Flop comes Ah 3c 5hI bet the pot ($2.50) 2 players call, player 4 raises to $7, Button raises to $18.50 and I push all in for a total of $29 or something. I figure at least one has a set, maybe both - which I'm hoping for but I thought someone else might have flopped the nuts as well. Player on my left (BB) thinks for a while and flat calls the $26.50 (he had a mountain of chips like $120 or something). I'm positive this player has the nut flush draw. Original raiser to $7 calls the bet and is all in. Button calls the extra $10.50. Turn and river come Ax 4hIt gets checked down by the BB and button. I lose obviously, BB shows Kh8hxx as expected. Player 4 shows 2 4 Jh 9h and Button shows 5 5 10h 6h and takes down a $130 pot. I knew I was beat when the turn and river hit but I wanted to push out anyone with a flush draw, set, 2 pair etc and show it down heads up. I read Jennifer Harmon's FT column a while ago about sometimes folding the nuts if you think you're up against some big draws in Omaha. My question is, was this a good example of when to fold the nuts (since I had no re-draws) or was it worth it to try and push out the players who would face a cold re-raise and/or re-re-raise? Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well to start, you have to fold that hand. Omaha is a drawing game, and K742 is a terrible hand to try and draw to the nuts. Whether or not you should have folded on the flop is up to you. Worst case scenario is that one opponent has the flush draw, one has a set, and one has something like 6542, for the nut straight and a draw to the higher straight. If that is the case then you want to fold, as the best you can hope for is a split pot, and even that is not terribly likely.As it played i would have checked the nuts here UTG and seen what the action is like. You're not checking with the intention of folding if there is action...what you're hoping is that there is moderate betting/calling after you, and you can jam it when it gets back around. Everybody will know that you have the nuts, but they won't know if you have any re-draws, and they'll have to decide whether they want to risk their stacks to try and outdraw you (unless they also have the nuts...then they obviously won't have to outdraw you). If you're lucky the nut flush draw or the set will be priced out of calling, and so whether he calls or not isn't important since he is making an error in doing so. Maybe you can isolate and just play against the flush draw or the set. As this one played I don't think anybody was folding, but you can't know what they have until the hand is over.As this one played out your best case scenario was a split pot, and even if it was just you and the other 42xx heads-up, he had a free draw. Fold this hand facing 2 callers, a raise, and a re-raise....if your opponents are competent. The reason you fold raggedy hands like this ESPECIALLY out of position is that unless you flop the overboat, your hand may be quite vulnerable even if you nail the flop. IMO the best way to neutralize your positional disadvantage in a multi-way pot like this is to check UTG. An even better way is to fold preflop. Link to post Share on other sites
wilheldp 0 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 The best advice is to start playing O8. At least you would have been guaranteed a part of the low pot. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 The best advice is to start playing O8. At least you would have been guaranteed a part of the low pot.Yeah but he woulda got quartered Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 sounds like you're a couple of wild and crazy guys Link to post Share on other sites
checkymcfold 0 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 in such a multiway pot, i'm very likely to just c/c this flop and push hard on a safe turn where i can actually make someone make a mistake. these sorts of flop nuts with no redraws situations are precisely why you have to avoid hands like yours in all cases, even with huge implied odds. with so many players in, you have to assume that pretty much any heart or board pair has you in serious trouble and thus that you're actually a relatively big dog to the field on this flop. Link to post Share on other sites
wilheldp 0 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Yeah but he woulda got quartered $130/4 = $32.50 > $30 (starting stack) Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 fold preflopand stop playing PLO immediately Link to post Share on other sites
KONGOS 0 Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 Hey, thanks for the all replys, especially "timwakefield's" reply. Most of what you mentioned briefly ran through my head before I jammed it all in there. I say briefly because I was steaming a little from some previous bad beats and was kinda pissed that my nuts were being messed with...lol. It was a mixed game and the PLO rounds were for the most part pretty passive pre-flop and on the flop. It was so loose because it was .10/.20 and I called pre-flop hoping to hit maybe a flush with the Kc7c or flop the nuts or even just 2 pair and pick up a small pot on the flop...(that was quite the norm in this game). Anyway, no real rationalization...haha. I agree that checking the flop would've probably been the best move so that I could see what the action was like in order to be either confident I could push everyone off their hands with a big raise or just fold if I knew I couldn't. I didn't really think anything other than "flopped the nuts with 2 hearts out there = must push hard". Instinctive reaction instead of thinking it through. Anyways, that was long-winded...sorry. Thanks for the advice...other than you cdddc75 Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 and was kinda pissed that my nuts were being messed with...lol.Gross. Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Hey, thanks for the all replys, especially "timwakefield's" reply. Most of what you mentioned briefly ran through my head before I jammed it all in there. I say briefly because I was steaming a little from some previous bad beats and was kinda pissed that my nuts were being messed with...lol.If this is typical of the way you play after taking "bad beats", PLO is not the game for you. People tend to draw out frequently in a drawing game. Link to post Share on other sites
KONGOS 0 Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 If this is typical of the way you play after taking "bad beats", PLO is not the game for you. People tend to draw out frequently in a drawing game.Thanks cddc75...Now that I'm learning from my mistakes, I guess I'll quit playing. Again, thanks for your strat contribution... Link to post Share on other sites
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