a case for christ

[Alhazred 0]

Because supposedly, heaven is nothing like this. . .  But back to tragedies and stuff. I think the destruction we see constantly is a reminder that in heaven, none of that sadness will exist. In fact, our entire existence (seems pesimistic, i know) is sadness UNTIL we meet our heavenly father. (sorry to upset you atheists)(My dialect is getting a bit preachy i know). I know this sounds perverted, but the sheer magnitude and the veil of ominous incomprehensible tragedy of 9/11 should be a blessing in disguise. A reminder that NONE OF THIS exists in heaven

See, to me, heaven sounds like a total bore. Oh yay, total happiness and unending bliss, or whatnot. Where's the tragedy? Where's the ups and downs that make life worth living? Where's the reward that comes after hard-fought endeavors? Eternity is a long time to be at an emotional peak.I tell you what: heaven better have poker, and Jesus better not be reading my mind when I push in.

I HATE KOREANS b/c they're all christ this and christ that and then they're sleeping with like 32423423432432 people.  

I'll leave this alone . . . eek.

[Paz 0]

Sorry, but the generalization of  Christian atrocities is a poor basis for conclusions. And the holocaust was not a Christian event, it was an athiest's event.

It is false to assume that the atrocities of the past occured because of christianity considering that back then most of the civilized western world was christian. Also, Hitler was catholic, not atheist.You should look at many of Hitler's famous speeches and quotes.http://www.thatcherthunders.org/tthitcomp.htmOf course, Hitler's rampage is not a testament to the catholic faith anymore than O.J. Simpson is an archetype of a football player's psyche. Just like Stalin, Pol Pot, or Caligula he was just a sick man.

[Scanner313 0]

I am sorry but I just dont have a strong enough faith that everything in this universe was created by random chance.

I wasn't going to add anything to this conversation but this coment got me interested.With all due respect, your comment implies that because of the complex nature of the universe (as a whole) that it couldn't have developed naturally. Here's my question... If not understanding the scope of the universe sways you away from evoultion, the big bang, etc., is there some evidence that draws you TO religion? Or is it just the easier explanation?I'm just wondering because I've always believed that people adopted religion because of this lack of knowlege of the things that surrounded them. Not being able to find their place amidst so much confusion led them to the one answer that could explain it all the easiest, that being religion. I mean, think about it. Kids dont' understand most of what we, as adults, do understand, so it's easy to convince them of anything (i.e. Santa Claus, monsters in the closet, hair will grow on their palm if they.. well, you know). Well, even many adults today don't have the mental capacity to understand a lot of things. Even the most brilliant scientists cant' explain most of what's going on out there, but they've made great strides in figuring out tons of them (i.e. mathmatics, physics, even the discovery of electricity). But look at the poeple who did figure these things out. They were geniuses! There aren't that many out there, and I'm sure that there are plenty of natural phenomena in the universe that even the smartest humans can never comprehend. But that doesn't mean it's not natural.My point is that I think most people still believe in religion for 2 reasons:1) It absolves us, as the most highly intellectual species on this planet, of having to figure out why we're here, where we came from, etc. Religion offers all of this to us in a nice package that was very well crafted for something that arose 2000 years ago (well, Christianity anyway).2) Most people have been raised, from the time they were able to comprehend speach, to believe in religion. It offered them a sense of community and family that isn't easy to give up. I should know, I was born, baptised, and raised Catholic. I finally made the decision to completley abandon my faith when I was about 27. It was tough. I was leaving something that offered comfort, but I just couldn't accept it anymore. It made no sense to me and I decided that religion wasn't something I could believe in anymore. I don't go spreading it around because I know it would upset members of my family, and I don't want that. They don't have to know, and I'm certainly not going to try to pursuade them that they are wrong, as I wouldn't with anyone else.Anyway, I'm rambling here. I was just curious as to your position based on your statement.

[LukesMom 0]

I'm curious to know what the reactions are of those who have finished this book?I've just started reading it...

[Balloon guy 158]

Sorry, but the generalization of Christian atrocities is a poor basis for conclusions. And the holocaust was not a Christian event, it was an athiest's event.

It is false to assume that the atrocities of the past occured because of christianity considering that back then most of the civilized western world was christian. Also, Hitler was catholic, not atheist.You should look at many of Hitler's famous speeches and quotes.http://www.thatcherthunders.org/tthitcomp.htmOf course, Hitler's rampage is not a testament to the catholic faith anymore than O.J. Simpson is an archetype of a football player's psyche. Just like Stalin, Pol Pot, or Caligula he was just a sick man.

Hitler may have claimed catholism, quoted it and used it when it fit, but the basic tenet that the master race/Superman theory brought about because of evolution is much more an athiest view than any other world view. That was my only point. Too many make the lazy connection and group Hitler with Christianity because of his words. Maybe I am doing the same thing by lumping an evil man with a belief that isn't evil....just wrong IMHO.

[Paz 0]

Hitler may have claimed catholism, quoted it and used it when it fit, but the basic tenet that the master race/Superman theory brought about because of evolution is much more an athiest view than any other world view.

Evolution has nothing to do with a "master race." He inferred that from this theory to give weight to his grandiose, but twisted ambitions.

[Balloon guy 158]

Hitler may have claimed catholism, quoted it and used it when it fit, but the basic tenet that the master race/Superman theory brought about because of evolution is much more an athiest view than any other world view.

Evolution has nothing to do with a "master race." He inferred that from this theory to give weight to his grandiose, but twisted ambitions.

Evolution is based on the evolving upward of a species. How does this not fit with the Master Race theory?I don't believe in evolution, so I see the flaw, evolutionist argue that man is getting better, therfore some men are better than others.How many evolutionist does it take to screw in a lightbulb?None, eventually it will screw itself in.

[Paz 0]

Evolution is based on the evolving upward of a species. How does this not fit with the Master Race theory?I don't believe in evolution, so I see the flaw, evolutionist argue that man is getting better, therfore some men are better than others.

I've noticed that those who reject evolution are typically those that don't know what it is or have some strawman definition of it, which included Hitler.Evolution is NOT about progress. Those organisms that proliferate are not those that are advanced or more complex, rather it is those that are better suited to survive in their biological niche. A tapeworm or bacterium is just as fit as a deer or lion.Being the case or not, this does not mean that we must perform eugenics or genocide. This is why modern culture has a standard of ethics.Just because something happens naturally doesn't mean that it is moral in any sort of analogical sense. I think even DN can vouch for that, being a vegetarian.

[UglyJimStudly 0]

Evolution is based on the evolving upward of a species.

No, it's not. It's a change in the gene pool of a population over time. If you're interested in more, there's a good synopsis here:http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-...to-biology.html

How does this not fit with the Master Race theory?

Not sure what you mean by "Master Race theory", but all bigots start with the conclusion and work backwards to justify it; they will twist and misuse evolution, history, the bible, or whatever else to their ends. That they do this does not mean that evolution, history, or the bible are responsible for their bigotry. Claiming that evolution is bad because bigots twist it to support their position is about as useful as claiming that the bible is bad because bigots twist biblical passages to support their position, which is to say not useful at all.

[blinky 0]

Its interesting that its somewhat of a basic human urge to project their views onto other. Dont you guys think that if someone was truly confident in their faith, they wouldnt feel the need to have others discover and subscribe to their same belief system. Personally i view religion as kind of an interesting phenomenon among humans, but i dont think its really neccessary for each and every person. Mainly religion is used to quell fears and uncertainties, and in the current world we live in (first world america, canada europe) we really lead good enough lives that we can live fine without resorting to religion to comfort ourselves.That being said i respect people who subscribe to religious views, but understand that thats not for everyone, and shouldnt be imposed on everyone.

[weishan14 0]

While I agree that you should not impose your beliefs on others, I do believe that if something is truly important and special in your life, it is only natural to want to share that with others. Telling people what you believe does not, in any way, force them to accept and/or embrace those same beliefs. You talk about the things that are important in your life. People find it totally acceptable to share the news about a new restaurant, car, sports team, etc that they are interested in, yet if you tell people about the church family that you are a part of, people think you are being pushy.*************Also wanted to mention that I am reading "A Case for Christ" and I find it to be a really enlightening book. I especially like the journalistic style that Lee Strobel used to present this material. I highly recommend, if you have not read this book, that you take Daniel up on his offer and write and ask him to send you a copy.

[Diabolical 0]

people think your pushy when you discuss religion cause they give you two choices. Good and Evil. And if I don't believe in god, You will "Judge" me as evil. God said, "Judge not, and yee will not be judged" I don't know where he said this but some quack heard him say it i guesse. And if you believe in god, then you must believe and obey this as well.So the main reason people don't want to hear about god is because the person who gives the message is also the person who thinks he/she is self rightious enough to judge everyone else. Tell me you don't know anybody in your congrigation who is like this.

[weishan14 0]

people think your pushy when you discuss religion cause they give you two choices. Good and Evil. And if I don't believe in god, You will "Judge" me as evil. I know a lot of very nice people that do not believe in God. Everyone must decide for themselves whether or not they are going to believe in God. You do not go to heaven because you are good and you are not kept out of heaven because you are evil. You can only get to heaven by believing in the finished work of Jesus on the cross.God said, "Judge not, and yee will not be judged" I don't know where he said this but some quack heard him say it i guesse. And if you believe in god, then you must believe and obey this as well.The only One Who can judge people is God. The Bible says you will know a person by the way they live (by their fruits), but only God can see the heart and really know a personSo the main reason people don't want to hear about god is because the person who gives the message is also the person who thinks he/she is self rightious enough to judge everyone else. Tell me you don't know anybody in your congrigation who is like this.

You are correct, I do know people that believe this way. The only "righteousness" that I have is from Christ. As Paul said in the New Testament, the only thing Christians have to boast about is what Christ did for us. I am no better or worse than anyone else. I do things that are wrong every day. The difference is that I can go to God and accept His forgiveness and with His help I can reach out to others and be an encouragement to them.

[UglyJimStudly 0]

Also wanted to mention that I am reading "A Case for Christ" and I find it to be a really enlightening book. I especially like the journalistic style that Lee Strobel used to present this material.

It's only a journalistic style in the sense that it's easy to read and tends to dumb-down complex issues, which are two of the three pillars of modern journalism. The third pillar, neutrality in the form of quoting disparate sources, is completely lacking. Strobel doesn't seek out any experts who contradict his thesis - or even Christians with a view different from his - everyone he talks to is an Evangelical apologist. That makes the book more along the lines of marketing rather than journalism.

[ddoggphx 0]

And another thing re: CAtholic/Christians. You know, the gay molesting priest scandals. And the historical persecution and killing of non-Catholics. And the power abuse by the popes, supposedly in the Catholic religion, there word is "infallible" meaning that Catholics believe their word is handed down by God. What God would permit popes to do that/???

Popes are only infallible when speaking on matters of scriptural doctrine. This is said to be God speaking through them. They are not inffallible in any other way, even when speaking about the structure or the governance of the church. ONLY on matters of scripture and/or doctrine of the church (Mary a virgin mother, etc.) Oh, and ONLY the Pope is infallible in this regard. Not priests or bishops or cardinals.Just one more misconception about us Catholics. I am not a member of a church...I am a member of a faith. The church may be flawed in the people who govern/work within it, but the faith itself is not flawed.

[NortonFan 0]

I'm what most people would call an agnostic.  I don't know what to believe.  I guess when your parents are two different religions, it makes you question religion more.That being said, I took Daniel up on his offer for this book as I am in information freak.  I won't exclude anything.  I've read the Bible and its a great book.  Arguably the greatest book ever.  But thats all it is to me, a great book containing the best story ever imagined.I look forward to reading this book as soon as it arrives.  I will let everyone know if I'm a Christian after I'm done.  I highly doubt it.  I give myself 10 to 1 on that.

So did you finish it? Are you Christian?

[gripesalot 0]

OK, if you are interested in an actual scholarly examination of the life of the man Jesus and of the first 4 books of the bible written about him, which uses scientific methodology that includes actual empirical data and which takes into evidence the wider social context which he live in, you should read a book called "The Gospel of Q." This book shows, by using actual empirical evidence and logical reasoning, how and in which order the 1st 4 books were written, why they have different emotional tones, and what can be actually attributed directly to Jesus (ie the things which Jesus is directly quited as to have said, which are present and unchanged in each of the 1st four books) It is fascinating reading for any true scholar interested in the history of Christianity who is willing to examine their faith with rational, critical thought. Amazon's link follows:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/006...4635447-9948118

[Spademan 94]

Robert Ingersoll is my homeboy.

[greatwhite 0]

Alright, cool, a free book, but could you hook us up with any free poker books? I'm not really into religous things, but I'm into poker. Only if it free for you of course, I'm not asking you to buy us poker books.

[NortonFan 0]

Please buy us poker books.

[checkymcfold 0]

Hitler may have claimed catholism, quoted it and used it when it fit, but the basic tenet that the master race/Superman theory brought about because of evolution is much more an athiest view than any other world view. That was my only point. Too many make the lazy connection and group Hitler with Christianity because of his words. Maybe I am doing the same thing by lumping an evil man with a belief that isn't evil....just wrong IMHO.

eek, careful. hitler manipulated catholic doctrine no more than he manipulated nietzsche's philosophical work (a common misunderstanding, suggested by your use of "superman" above). it's important to note that for a lot of people, religion is not simply a tool to be used for a greater end. for many, religion is, in and of itself, the greatest end of all, one that does often become manifest in profound and far-reaching political motivation. unfortunately, in the secularized (at least politically) west, we have relegated religious reasoning to a place for which it never was intended. religion (though specifically, i mean christianity here, which is what we're talking about, non?), began as a fundamentally political movement. the teachings of christ, as documented in the canonized gospels as well as the many apocryphal writings, were just as much a political plea to the "hearts and minds" (to allude to a contemporary example) of his listeners as they were moral.to drastically oversimplify--though not entirely inadequately--history, with the rise of post-enlightenment western secularism spawned as an overreactive retort to the thirty years war (an unfortunate occurrence that hyperbolized religious fervor in a way not unlike that of hitler), we compartmentalized religion and separated it from the public realm in a way that was never intended. it seemed like a good idea at the time; political religion gave rise to the thirty years war, ergo we must separate politics and religion to avoid doing this again. this was a profound whoopsie. if two children are fighting, one does not do well to make sure they never speak to each other again. rather, reconciliation between the two kids should be sought, and political policies should be implemented that facilitate such a change (i refer you to diana eck's "pluralism project," for a pristine example of this). of course, stating things this way does not speak kindly of the history of the political west, but i believe that far too often, religion in the west is caricatured by secularism in order to retain its absolute separation from politics. quite simply, don't do that. many here have seemed to do just that.suggested readings:the culture of disbelief, stephen cartera new religious america, diana eckand on what it means to be christian:fear and trembling, the practice of christianity, and christian discourses, soren kierkegaard (the best christian. ever.). and for the record, i'm an atheist, a grad student in religious studies/philosophy, and a kid who hates (well, strongly dislikes) george bush and the vast majority of evangelical zealots. why this is true should become clear if you read/understand carter's work above.

[Holden 0]

Hey Daniel. I'm currently an atheist but not as much by choice as by lack of faith. I really find religion to be unbelievable and self-serving. I used to be a hardcore christian but have since changed my ways...I tend to think of myself as an existentialist. I can't wrap my head around something I was told about religion. The fact that if an old lady died alone....never hurt a soul in her life....perfect by anyone's standards BUT she was ignorant of God ie never heard of Him, was never taught about the bible etc. She would go to hell. I can't accept that. I also believe that if humans have a soul that all living things have a soul as well. Who are we to believe we are these supreme beings? Who are we to believe so much of the bible when we've been conditioned to believe in it our entire lives. And what about free will? Do you believe in it? If God really has our path chosen for us that kind of rules out free will. And when you look at life on a larger scale all we are really are molecules bouncing off and reacting to each other just the way you'd see under a microscope. The thing is I had alot more structure in my life whe I believed in God....but that just isn't good enough for me....that could be where religion was derived....everyone is eternally looking for the meaning of life...or whether or not we are reincarnated etc. Religion really adds structure to your life and gives you a real reason to live. Maybe it's the easy way out. You don't have to ask those life questions anymore....you just live till you die and wait for heaven....how depressing does that sound! Personally I believe our purpose on earth is not to serve God or any of these million dollar religions....its to be ourselves to the max and to question life and everything in it. Not to sit back and accept things as they are since everything is in "God's" plan. I am in NO WAY being critical of anyone's beliefs. I just ask you to think about what is really inportant in life....do you really want to base your life on faith in something that sounds way too good to be true. I'd love to read the book you suggest and will do so with a completely open mind. Maybe I just haven't found the right faith or been taught the right things. Also if I read your book I'd like to you watch the movie Waking Life and think about some of those concepts....it's a mind opener.

[Jeff 0]

Daniel I respect you as a person and as a poker player. I think you have a great personality and have been good for the game of poker. I think you have done great with this blog site, and love they way you have given us insight into your life. I was very disappointed to find this post. I realize that this was in the Off Topic area, and in the future I'll just stick with the Poker stuff. Non-Christian fundamentalists are very tired of the way you fundamentalist Christians keep pushing Christ down everyone's throat. I understand that it is part of being a good Christian. You have to preach the word of Christ to everyone and try to convert as many people as possible to the word of Christ. Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. Judaism generally recognizes that Christians and Moslems worship the same G-d that Jews do and those who follow the tenets of their religions can be considered righteous in the eyes of G-d. This is very different than fundamentalist Christianity who believe that if you do not believe in Christ you cannot be sent to Heaven. In general, Jews do not try to convert non-Jews to Judaism. In fact, according to halakhah (Jewish Law), rabbis are supposed to make three vigorous attempts to dissuade a person who wants to convert to Judaism. I now take everything you do within the scope of your being a fundamentalist Christian. I'm glad that this path of sprituality has worked for you. Please be aware that there are other paths toward enlightenment and no one path is correct.

[crowTrobot 2]

Religion really adds structure to your life and gives you a real reason to live. Maybe it's the easy way out. You don't have to ask those life questions anymore....you just live till you die and wait for heaven....how depressing does that sound!

i know i'm depressed by the thought - how limiting. in this information age it's absolutely amazing that so many obviously intelligent people continue to remain or become deluded by cults (including christianity) simply because it makes life simple and fills a void, while chosing to ignore how absurd their ultra-specific beliefs are in light of the larger global picture. humanity as a whole is still in a very sad, immature state that we should be progressing beyond but currently aren't.

[greatwhite 0]

I think people would be happier if you gave out a free version of the Supersystem. The only religous book most people want here is the bible of poker. :-)