Jordan 1 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Button ($406.90)SB ($1034.90)Hero ($888.30)UTG ($337.60)MP ($744.50)Preflop: Hero is BB with T , J . SB posts a blind of $2. 2 folds, Button raises to $14, 1 fold, Hero raises to $36, Button calls $26.Flop: ($82) 6 , 5 , 3 (2 players)Hero bets $60, Button calls $60.Turn: ($202) 9 (2 players)Hero checks, Button checks.River: ($202) K (2 players)Hero bets $140 ....Final Pot: $342Button is a solid thinking player that I've been laughing with on and off while playing. I got him to show me a hand once already using my "sound really weak/tight" scheme before that I've voiced a few times on this forum. It's great at getting people to show hands when they think they're bluffing.Anyways, I think I could have bet maybe a little bit more on the flop, maybe $65-$70.On the turn, I was check/folding if he bet, as I put him on a middle pair range like 77 - TT, and maybe JJ.River, well...obv no club draw got there, and it's a potential scare card for a range he may have, so I take a shot after he checks the turn.---I'm not sure if I prefer betting the turn and folding to a raise, or chosing my line given his action...this kinda bluff I don't pull often UI OOP, just thought I'd post for some thoughts, good or bad.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 This makes me scared of 400max. I guess he could put you on AK, I don't know though, he may very well be calling with those mid PP because of the weak turn. I could check a mid PP here on turn in hopes of Hero to bluff at the river and to keep pot size down. However your bet is so strong on river it's a tough call down. I don't particularly like your play. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 This makes me scared of 400max. I guess he could put you on AK, I don't know though, he may very well be calling with those mid PP because of the weak turn. I could check a mid PP here on turn in hopes of Hero to bluff at the river and to keep pot size down. However your bet is so strong on river it's a tough call down. I don't particularly like your play.when he checked the turn it really made some lights go off in my head.I thought he either had some sort of flush draw, middle pair, or a hand like AQ/AJ/AT, and even KJ/KQ that he for some reason called on the flop with to try and take away later. But when he checked the turn I thought he was partically scared or weak, and if a "good" river came in my mind, I could pick it up with a decently timed bluff.Oh, and AK was the hand I was hoping he'd put me on...or anything that had whatever he was holding, beat. -- but AK was primarily the hand I was hoping he'd think I had, and thought he'd think I have if I bet.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 What other river cards are "good" I'm thinking only 10, J or K that doesn't make the flush. I'm sure your read having been at the table is much more important than me just looking at HH. That being said, I make the check on a turn often against an aggressive opponent hoping he will bluff at river for me to call down. But, I am playing $100 max and I'm sure there will be adjustments I have to make _when_ I get to $400 max. Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Jordan,Usually when I reraise suited connectors, I make sure I will be in position throughout the hand, because I hate playing in bloated pots OOP.Anyway, on the turn, you have 2 options. Either set the hand up for 2 big bluffs, or give up and hope he checks behind. I like giving up with the draw on the board.River is perfect. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I don't like this play OOP preflop but meh I guess you can mix up ur play a lil. River play is good cause otherwise its a white flag.Also what makes you think the villian isn't holding AK???? Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I don't like this play OOP preflop but meh I guess you can mix up ur play a lil. River play is good cause otherwise its a white flag.Also what makes you think the villian isn't holding AK????Or KQ/ KcJc. This guy really IS weak-tight if he didn't raise the flop or bet the turn with his overpair. If he did have one, he sure did donk it up and may have cost himself a pot when the K hit the riv and you bet it. Otherwise I'm super scared of lot of his holdings. Brave bet though; it was the right amount if you were going to do it. Also, why not fire on the turn? Were you planning a c/r if he bet after you checked? Link to post Share on other sites
fckthis 0 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I wouldve led the turn. I think with your reraise OOP, you can represent a big hand, JJ+. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 Or KQ/ KcJc. This guy really IS weak-tight if he didn't raise the flop or bet the turn with his overpair. If he did have one, he sure did donk it up and may have cost himself a pot when the K hit the riv and you bet it. Otherwise I'm super scared of lot of his holdings. Brave bet though; it was the right amount if you were going to do it. Also, why not fire on the turn? Were you planning a c/r if he bet after you checked?I didn't put him on KQ or KJc cause I thought he'd of raised the flop with that kinda draw.I didn't fire the turn cause I personally thought he had a middle pair and when the turn came off I didn't see what I could represent besides an overpair. And I thought he was perhaps in call down mode, so when he checked behind...I thought, meh, maybe not...let's see what comes on turn and decide if we can fire.Check/raising the turn "might" be an option if he was as deep as I was...otherwise it's a check/fold if he bets the turn (for me in this situation).- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
gooch 0 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I didn't put him on KQ or KJc cause I thought he'd of raised the flop with that kinda draw.I didn't fire the turn cause I personally thought he had a middle pair and when the turn came off I didn't see what I could represent besides an overpair. And I thought he was perhaps in call down mode, so when he checked behind...I thought, meh, maybe not...let's see what comes on turn and decide if we can fire.Check/raising the turn "might" be an option if he was as deep as I was...otherwise it's a check/fold if he bets the turn (for me in this situation).- JordanIf you think he has middle pair and he raised it was probably connected or one off no, suited? 45, 56, 67, 78, 54 gives him middle and an OESD65 has you in trouble67 for top pair and a double belly buster78 you are toast but you felt he didn't have itI think he would have bet with the OESD and a flush draw if he had the 45 or 67 of clubs so lets say he has diamonds and whiffed the flush draw flop, that may explain his timmidness if he has the draw, but if the club comes he is beat anywaysIf he believes you as AK he might lay down cause I think he was on a draw, if he comes over the top then he has the 78 and was hoping you would bluff at the river Link to post Share on other sites
CrackofmyACE 1 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 i fold pf Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 i fold pfi shouldn't respond to this ...but...lol- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
RhinestoneCowboy 2 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I probobly fold it as well, but that is why I kept quiet as I didn't feel as though that added much to the "strategy" conversation. My game isn't that advanced, and I play like a puss.Interesting read though, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Slow Clap 0 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Don't like the reraise OOP. As played I probably put that big bet in on the turn to try to get him off any draw he may have. If he calls with his middle pair, I just give up on the river. If he's on a draw and bad enough to call a big turn bet with one card to come then he can have my money. These sort of players are hard to bluff off of hands. I prefer to just wait for a big hand against them and let them pay me off on each street. Link to post Share on other sites
CrackofmyACE 1 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 i shouldn't respond to this ...but...lol- Jordanok- Crack Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted June 20, 2006 Author Share Posted June 20, 2006 Don't like the reraise OOP. As played I probably put that big bet in on the turn to try to get him off any draw he may have. If he calls with his middle pair, I just give up on the river. If he's on a draw and bad enough to call a big turn bet with one card to come then he can have my money. These sort of players are hard to bluff off of hands. I prefer to just wait for a big hand against them and let them pay me off on each street.he wasn't a calling station. he isn't paying you off.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I really don't re-raise this preflop in a HU pot from the blinds. ..and I love hands like this. Link to post Share on other sites
Stylin_Fish 0 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 If I have 10-10 or J-J I call your river bet in a heartbeat. But that's because I've seen what you had. I'm a genius. Link to post Share on other sites
TeeSludge 0 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I think you played this hand well on every street. Sexy river bet. Unless he calls and has AK. But he's not calling because he has AQ. NH. Link to post Share on other sites
radar37 0 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I don't play this high, and I'm not sure about the reraise preflop, I wouldn't do it. But river is perfect. nh. Link to post Share on other sites
macphec 0 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 In my experience this river bluff gets looked up WAY too often to be profitable after the previous action. I prefer to fire again on the turn and then give up if that bet gets called. I like this line better because:1. It prices out the possible flush draw2. Reinforces that you have what you are representing... A premium pair.This looks an awful lot like 1010 or some other middling pair. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 If I have 10-10 or J-J I call your river bet in a heartbeat. But that's because I've seen what you had. I'm a genius.If im villian with TT/JJIm betting the turn Link to post Share on other sites
spikymarv99 0 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 You played the hand optimally given you were out of position. There is too much money in the pot to not take a stab after he shows weakness by checking behind on the turn. You could rep A-K, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was what he had. Alot of the NL 400 donks seem to take A-K too far. My only question is the with respects to your preflop play. I'm just a strong proponent of playing tight out of positon and loose in position. I would prob just call the raise preflop barring a read that he is getting out of line. Could you explain repopping villan. I'd be interested to hear the thought process. i fold pfI don't think you can fold J-10s preflop unless the raiser is very tight. It's too good of a hand to drop. I'm actually hoping that villan has a big hand in this spot b/c J-10s is my favorite ace cracker. The only time I would repop villan is if he is getting out of line with his raises. If I have 10-10 or J-J I call your river bet in a heartbeat. But that's because I've seen what you had. I'm a genius.I don't think you can put villan on J-J, Q-Q, or 10-10 unless he is not very good. To just call the re-raise preflop puts him in a horrible position. He has essentially turned his hand into 2-2 and is set mining; he is guessing the rest of the way and forced to make very tough decisions especially to that river bet. I don't know if villan is horrible, but assuming he is not, I suspect villan might have an A-K that he was trying to float but couldn't pull the trigger on the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
Scott3705 0 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Jordan,Usually when I reraise suited connectors, I make sure I will be in position throughout the hand, because I hate playing in bloated pots OOP.Anyway, on the turn, you have 2 options. Either set the hand up for 2 big bluffs, or give up and hope he checks behind. I like giving up with the draw on the board.River is perfect.Yeah, I fold suited connectors a lot in 6 max OOP, but if you're going to raise, this hand is pretty good. Flop-cbet is standard.turn-C/F is best OOPRiver- we're probably C/Fing to most cards but you found one of 8 cards to represent here. Link to post Share on other sites
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