66 In A Turbo Sng

[Mashchit 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)CO (t2365)Button (t1010)SB (t1140)BB (t1240)UTG (t1605)UTG+1 (t1500)Hero (t3220)MP2 (t1420)Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6, 6. 2 folds, Hero calls t30, 3 folds, SB completes, BB raises to t150, Hero calls t120, SB folds.Flop: (t330) 4, Q, T(2 players)BB bets t180, Hero raises to t650, BB raises to t1090, Hero calls t440. No real read on the villain. My stack has come from flopping the nuts in an unraised bb and later knocking out a short stack with AK v their underpair.I thought about raising pf, given the 2 folds, but decided just to see a cheap flop. Given the respective stack sizes I think calling the bb's reraise is automatic.BB does what seems to be a standard continuation bet on the flop. It feels like a steal bet to me; I'd probably bet more myself if I had a hand in the bb, given the co-ordinated nature of the board. My raise was to try to knock out any drawing hands, plus put pressure on other hands that the villain could have that were ahead of mine, but less than a pair of queens.I didn't like his push at all. But, I was getting 3.6:1 odds, had the chance to knock someone out and get a great stack. And as it was a $6 tourney AK and AJ definitely get played this way at this level and seemed to match the betting so far. So, after a little thought I called. Having run the numbers through Poker Stove since, on a pure odds basis villain would need to have a range of something like 77+,AT+,KT+,Q8+,JT,T9 for me not to have the proper odds to call the final push. With a tighter range the odds are more in my favour.In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have got involved, given my stack size. Do you agree? Irrespective of that, how well or badly did I play the hand? All thoughts welcomed...

[psujohn 0]

Fold PF. Unless villain is an idiot he's not really short stacked and has plenty of poker to play.If you call fold to the flop bet. You're playing this for set value.If you're convinced it's a steal attempt and raise the flop then fold to the push. Unless villain is an idiot ....

[tallytownFSU 0]

Fold PF. Unless villain is an idiot he's not really short stacked and has plenty of poker to play.If you call fold to the flop bet. You're playing this for set value.If you're convinced it's a steal attempt and raise the flop then fold to the push. Unless villain is an idiot ....

QFT

[BeaverStyle 1]

you raised on the flop (a little too much i think, a smaller raise would have gotten you the information you needed) and yet when he went all in, you called?Were you hoping to hit a set? Fold to the reraise, you're beat, he's an idiot if he's going to bluff his last 440 when you have represented a solid hand with that flop (which you didn't have).

[Mashchit 0]

you raised on the flop (a little too much i think, a smaller raise would have gotten you the information you needed) and yet when he went all in, you called?

One of my (many) problems is that I don't always think ahead enough when I'm acting. Hence, "I'll raise to find out where I am", but then not think about what I will do if they play back at me. I guess I sort of thought that I would fold if he played back at me, but then he did and the odds were good; that combined with the fact that I've seen AK played like this so many times at this level turned it into a call. If I was playing at a higher level I would have folded for the reason you give.Fair point about making a smaller raise too.

Were you hoping to hit a set? Fold to the reraise, you're beat, he's an idiot if he's going to bluff his last 440 when you have represented a solid hand with that flop (which you didn't have).

It was a $6 tourney and idiots abound (I mean, look at how I played this hand!), as above.I think I should have folded pf, probably without limping. Yes, I called his pf raise to hit a set, and then I thought he was bluffing with the continuation bet.Tally... QFT?Does anyone have any more comments on the hand? I'd like to post the results and get some feedback on how the villain played his hand.

[psujohn 0]

Does anyone have any more comments on the hand? I'd like to post the results and get some feedback on how the villain played his hand.

Don't bother unless villain used an interesting line that you'd consider using yourself. We all know that people do stupid things and most "how did villain play this hand" posts are really "I think villain was a moron and sucked out on me. Please agree with me so I feel better."

[Actuary 3]

I fold the flopyou played it bad.that's my comment

[Mashchit 0]

Actuary - agreed. Given my starting stack, would you have played the hand at all and if so, how?Also, since I factored a bluff into his range, what about flat calling the flop with position and trying to take the pot away from him on the turn?

Don't bother unless villain used an interesting line that you'd consider using yourself. We all know that people do stupid things and most "how did villain play this hand" posts are really "I think villain was a moron and sucked out on me. Please agree with me so I feel better."

I phrased my comment badly. I meant that I wanted some feedback on how you would play the villain's hand in his position.Let's get the result out of the way then. The villain did indeed have AK (AhKd in fact), hit one of their outs and was about as gracious in victory as Hellmuth is in defeat. I think that his push was terrible (which bypassed him in his efforts to rubbish my play), but I'm not looking for sympathy.What I am interested in is thoughts on how you play the villain's hand there, particularly with his first action on the flop. (Pre-flop I probably raise another bb worth given that I'm going to be out of position, but otherwise I think it's fine.) Do you do a continuation bet there on the flop and, if so, for how much? Heads up I usually would cb on most boards, but with this flop there aren't that many limping hands that aren't now ahead of AK or having very good draws. He bets just over half the pot, which should be enough to get rid of anyone who has limped with a pp that hasn't flopped a set (unless they read him for a bluff and raise or call with a view to taking the pot away on the turn if he checks it), but certainly seems to price anyone in who has any part of the flop. Given the co-ordinated nature of the flop, should a half-pot bet smell of a bluff as it did to me? Normally, the more co-ordinated a flop is then the nearer to a full pot bet I get. But, I wouldn't fancy putting 30% of my stack in here when I'm very likely behind.So, do you cb or shut down on the flop in the villain's shoes? If the former, I think I'd fold to a raise from the hero, but how do you play the turn if the hero flat calls your flop bet and the turn's a blank? Bet out again or shut down?

[Actuary 3]

as hero.I limp preflop and call the preflop raise and fold to the flop bet.I play pretty stright forward and rely on other bad palyers to shoot themselves.It works in the 33's an lower at least.I agree his flop bet looks a lot like a weak AK, but it may also be a QQ+/ TT looking to play slow and hope you pop him.What I"m basically saying is I find many bigger edges often enough to not try to guess what his bet means. I simply look at my two cards and figure "Is it worth risking anymore chips. What will pay me off? " As him I would raise to 200 preflop and if 1 caller, push this flop.

[tskillz187 0]

Villain should Push the flop. You should fold the flop.QFT = Quoted for truth.

[HtotheNootch 0]

Given the stacks:Don't hate the PF limp (you're looking for a set).Don't hate the PF Call (You're looking for a set, and hope he's got AA and won't lay it down).This is a flop a set hand. I like the "no set, no bet" line here. You missed your set, and got into a war. Not the time.

[Mashchit 0]

as hero.I limp preflop and call the preflop raise and fold to the flop bet.I play pretty stright forward and rely on other bad palyers to shoot themselves.It works in the 33's an lower at least.I agree his flop bet looks a lot like a weak AK, but it may also be a QQ+/ TT looking to play slow and hope you pop him.What I"m basically saying is I find many bigger edges often enough to not try to guess what his bet means. I simply look at my two cards and figure "Is it worth risking anymore chips. What will pay me off? " As him I would raise to 200 preflop and if 1 caller, push this flop.

Fair points all of them. I temporarily forgot the fundamentals of sng's. I hopefully won't do it again.What's the rationale behind the villain pushing the flop? (I appreciate that if he raised to 200 preflop then the pot would be bigger and so a push would be less of an overbet.) Isn't it walking into "only getting called by a hand that's beating you" territory?

QFT = Quoted for truth.

Thanks tskillz. Is there a list somewhere that details all these acronyms?

[Actuary 3]

What's the rationale behind the villain pushing the flop?

it's 400 chips and he has 1000.Fold equity10 outs a lot of times.it's not for value, we're looking to get a laydown here.But we have outs.that "you only get called by hands that beat you" is over used imo. In a vaccuum sure, it's valid.

[Mashchit 0]

it's 400 chips and he has 1000.Fold equity10 outs a lot of times.it's not for value, we're looking to get a laydown here.But we have outs.that "you only get called by hands that beat you" is over used imo. In a vaccuum sure, it's valid.

Thanks and those are the reasons I was expecting. I'm still not convinced by the push, but I'll have a play with the numbers sometime, which may well convince me. (Unfortunately my home computer disliked my play so much that it died shortly after the sng. Everyone's a critic.)The problems I have with the push are that it screams (to me at least) of a scared bet, and therefore not much of a hand, it's a $6 sng, it's early and you're pushing against the chip leader. So, you're in a loose tourney, against someone who has the stack to call you and whose calling/folding requirements you don't know. In other words, I'm not sure how much fold equity you would really have here.

[Actuary 3]

if Hero folds just 25% of the time BB wins the hand ~50% assuming we are needing to improveAnd if you consider the overlay of $430 already in there and the fact we reall would like to see both card, to me, it aint close.edit:it could also look like AQ trying to take it down here, because any reasonable bet committs us to SD anyway.if Villain pushes, he's getting 1470 for 1040 (assuming as 200 preflop raise)Of course, risk of using Cash anaylsis on Tourney; however, fold equity should be higher here and need to get some chips since it's a Turbo.

[tskillz187 0]

Thanks and those are the reasons I was expecting. I'm still not convinced by the push, but I'll have a play with the numbers sometime, which may well convince me. (Unfortunately my home computer disliked my play so much that it died shortly after the sng. Everyone's a critic.)The problems I have with the push are that it screams (to me at least) of a scared bet, and therefore not much of a hand, it's a $6 sng, it's early and you're pushing against the chip leader. So, you're in a loose tourney, against someone who has the stack to call you and whose calling/folding requirements you don't know. In other words, I'm not sure how much fold equity you would really have here.

You push so people fold something like 66 and don't try and make a move on you. If you call his push with 66 good call, but tough call and it's a lot of risk for having to be right, and then still only being a 62-38ish favorite (He has the backdoor flush draw as well).If he bets like he did here he's kind of committed especially if he thinks there is a percentage of the time you are bluffing and his AK is good. By him pushing it takes any play away from you, if he doesn't push here he should check/fold, and that play sucks. But it's better than having someone be committed to calling you with their crappy 6's because they tried to put a move on you.