Can You Play Flopped Nut Flush Worse Than This?

[CrazyJoe 0]

Prima Poker skinNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.25/$0.509 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $35.93UTG+1: $64.10MP1: $49.65MP2: $35.53MP3: $20.10CrazyJoe113: $89.21Button: $46.85SB: $64.45BB: $17.20Pre-flop: (9 players) CrazyJoe113 is CO with UTG calls, 4 folds, CrazyJoe113 calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.Flop: ($2.5, 4 players)SB checks, UTG checks, CrazyJoe113 bets $1.5, Button folds, SB calls, UTG folds.Turn: ($5.5, 2 players)SB checks, CrazyJoe113 checks.River: ($5.5, 2 players)SB bets $6.5, CrazyJoe113 raises to $15, SB raises all-in $56.2, CrazyJoe113 folds.Uncalled bets: $41.2 returned to SB.Results:Final pot: $35.5oops. wrong forum. ah well, my bad.

[pokerplayer24 0]

Dont raise that river.

[The Bwaves 0]

Well think of it this way;If you had bet big on the turn when he hit two pair, he would have called anyway, so regardless he was going to get it all in. You never know he could have been slow playing a set and would have folded to a push on the flop.That's poker in it's finest.

[antistuff 0]

If you had bet big on the turn when he hit two pair, he would have called anyway,

This is not the way to think about it.

[CrazyJoe 0]

Ya, i kicked myself for raising the river, I was expecting a call from K or Q of diamonds, after he pushed I really started to think he had 9 5 or J 5 from the small blind for a flopped 2 pair which he played cautiously. I also should have bet the turn, I checked to induce a bluff on the river. The whole hand is a mess, hence the title. I know I played it horribly, putting this hand out there is good therapy

[fleung22 1]

Ya, i kicked myself for raising the river, I was expecting a call from K or Q of diamonds, after he pushed I really started to think he had 9 5 or J 5 from the small blind for a flopped 2 pair which he played cautiously. I also should have bet the turn, I checked to induce a bluff on the river. The whole hand is a mess, hence the title. I know I played it horribly, putting this hand out there is good therapy

CrazyJoe,You didn't play that hand poorly at all. I believe you are only upset because you didn't win any money here.The bet-check-bet move is actually quite advanced and will yield great results for you in the future so don't give up on it.In this situation I'd actually have to have a pretty good read vs. villian to fold the nut flush.He might have put you on a flush draw that missed and saw your turn check as weakness and then your river raise as a bluff. Most weak players will call $1.50 bet with any pair.Villian could have flopped a lower flush (unlikely but possible) or more likely made a set on the river rather than a full house. I'd be surprised to see a player slowplay two-pair on the flop with such a scary board. Most players would prefer to take it down right away.

[CrazyJoe 0]

CrazyJoe,You didn't play that hand poorly at all. I believe you are only upset because you didn't win any money here.The bet-check-bet move is actually quite advanced and will yield great results for you in the future so don't give up on it.In this situation I'd actually have to have a pretty good read vs. villian to fold the nut flush.He might have put you on a flush draw that missed and saw your turn check as weakness and then your river raise as a bluff. Most weak players will call $1.50 bet with any pair.Villian could have flopped a lower flush (unlikely but possible) or more likely made a set on the river rather than a full house. I'd be surprised to see a player slowplay two-pair on the flop with such a scary board. Most players would prefer to take it down right away.

I don't care that much about the winning/losing of money at this point/level, as long as i play the hands properly. I agree the move is valid, one of my favourites, however I think the best line on this hand is continued betting when the 4th diamond comes. A smaller (in relation to pot) bet than the flop, maybe 1/3 to 1/2, looks like a scared bet and is more likely to get bluff-raised than the river is to get bluff bet. If the turn is a non-diamond, check is correct I think. On the river, I should've flat called, the risk of a push I am very uncomfortable calling (in fact I didn't but I took max time) is greater than the $8.50 i win from the K or Q of diamonds.

[fleung22 1]

I don't care that much about the winning/losing of money at this point/level, as long as i play the hands properly. I agree the move is valid, one of my favourites, however I think the best line on this hand is continued betting when the 4th diamond comes. A smaller (in relation to pot) bet than the flop, maybe 1/3 to 1/2, looks like a scared bet and is more likely to get bluff-raised than the river is to get bluff bet. If the turn is a non-diamond, check is correct I think. On the river, I should've flat called, the risk of a push I am very uncomfortable calling (in fact I didn't but I took max time) is greater than the $8.50 i win from the K or Q of diamonds.

If you flopped anything less than the nut flush (say w QT) I'd definitely support a turn bet because of the added danger of someone drawing with the Ace.However, you have a monster and this is one of those situations where you MUST give your opponent a chance to hang himself.My number choice would've been to do the bet-check-bet also.My second choice would be to check-check and hope for villian to stab at the pot on the river if he doesn't bet on the turn.If he has two pair or a set on the flop he only has 4 outs to make a full house.If you're scared of that scenario then poker is not for you. Sh!t happens but you have to like your odds of having the best hand at the end. Use a poker calculator if it helps to review the hand.Again, maybe you STILL had the best hand when you folded. I wasn't there so I don't know anything about your opponent but his initial river over bet didn't look like it wanted to get called.If you can't call a re-raise then maybe just calling the overbet was the better option but I think I'd be willing to go broke with that hand most of the time unless I was sure I was beat somehow.

[antistuff 0]

If he has two pair or a set on the flop he only has 4 outs to make a full house.

Are you sure about this?

[fleung22 1]

Are you sure about this?

My bad, if he has two pair then he has 4 outs.Obviously with the set he can hit the case card or pair any other card.